Multiculturalism is dangerous

[Russ]

I’ve done my best to STFU in this thread but reading through it I just can’t hold it in anymore.

Multiculturalism is not a bad thing. Neither is it a good thing.

It is simply a “thing”. It happens. It goes on and pretty much always has done in this country to varying degrees but of course it only becomes a ‘problem’ when those pesky brown people ‘come over here and cause problems’.

Firstly multiculturalism has been part of the UK for centuries. For example if you’re a big-city dweller and you went and lived in the mountains and valleys of deepest darkest mid-Wales you’d experience some real cultural shifts. Someone going the opposite direct would too.

This knife culture by certain urban chavs is virtually unheard of where I live (near Swansea).

Imagine someone who had lived in the Shetland isles all their life moving to Peckham. Or Soho. Or Knightsbridge. Or vice versa.

Multiculturalism has happens in this country probably ever since the Romans turned up. Maybe even before.

It really grinds my gears when someone from a culturally-different country to the UK gets arrested/prosecuted and people comment on his/her heritage. What’s the problem, do you demand ALL criminals in the UK be white and third-generation British only?? You get crime gangs in just about every city in the work, here included.

And if you’re one of the types who has particular vitriol saved especially for those who come from “brown” countries then you and I have a BIG problem.

Do I expect you to care? Course not, block me on here, job done.

And no, I’m no virtue signalling hand-wringing lefty. As some of you know my son is half Indian so is clearly not white. I don’t get along with his British Indian mother anymore (other than cordial discussions about our son) but I would defend her to the death if she was getting crap off people due to her perceived ‘culture’ (for the record she doesn’t even consider herself Indian. Sure she has the skin tone and features but feels about as Indian as I do).

Her parents however were immigrants, worked hard all their lives and paid their taxes, my son’s maternal grandfather only recently having to need to call on the NHS. In their home they maintain Indian culture just as they should be allowed to.

But have they, or any of their children/grandchildren caused any ‘multicultural’ problem? A big ‘eff no’. And during the 4/5 years I lived in Leicester with her did I ever encounter any problems caused by multiculturalism? NO.

Am I suggesting that all those coming to this country are angels? Of course not. But would stopping them coming seriously reduce crime? Saying yes to that is about as believable as anything that comes from Boris’ gob.

Rant over.

Originally Posted by Ms NTL

I stand corrected.

I was not aware that the Algerian kid was a "criminal". The kid had no criminal record because the police did not prosecute him for umpteen crimes.

Also, I was not aware that the kid started the engine and tried to hit the cop (maybe, maybe not). The kid's friend, sitting in the back said that the kid's foot slipped on the gas petal accidently, because the second policeman was hitting him.....
Self-defence ? I dunno.

But, I am concerned of this....



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Nahel_Merzouk

The "umpteen crimes" were ‘failing to comply with traffic stop orders’…

https://news.sky.com/story/he-didnt-...rance-12912081

But, tbf, the French Police have form on this…

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe...431.00)%20fine.

ON WHAT GROUNDS CAN POLICE STOP DRIVERS?

The Highway Code says that a driver can be stopped by police to have his driving documents checked at any time without any visible violation of the law.

HOW MANY POLICE SHOOTINGS HAVE THERE BEEN FOLLOWING THE REFUSAL TO COMPLY WITH A TRAFFIC STOP IN FRANCE?

The lethal shooting on Tuesday was the third of its kind this year, down from a record 13 people who were killed after not complying with a traffic stop in 2022, according to a police spokesperson

There were three such killings in 2021 and two in 2020, none in 2019 and 6 in both 2018 and 2017, according to a Reuters tally, which shows the majority of victims since 2017 were Black or of Arab origin.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

What religion are Algerians?

why do you want to know?

Originally Posted by Russ

I’ve done my best to STFU in this thread but reading through it I just can’t hold it in anymore.

Multiculturalism is not a bad thing. Neither is it a good thing.

It is simply a “thing”. It happens. It goes on and pretty much always has done in this country to varying degrees but of course it only becomes a ‘problem’ when those pesky brown people ‘come over here and cause problems’.

Firstly multiculturalism has been part of the UK for centuries. For example if you’re a big-city dweller and you went and lived in the mountains and valleys of deepest darkest mid-Wales you’d experience some real cultural shifts. Someone going the opposite direct would too.

This knife culture by certain urban chavs is virtually unheard of where I live (near Swansea).

Imagine someone who had lived in the Shetland isles all their life moving to Peckham. Or Soho. Or Knightsbridge. Or vice versa.

Multiculturalism has happens in this country probably ever since the Romans turned up. Maybe even before.

It really grinds my gears when someone from a culturally-different country to the UK gets arrested/prosecuted and people comment on his/her heritage. What’s the problem, do you demand ALL criminals in the UK be white and third-generation British only?? You get crime gangs in just about every city in the work, here included.

And if you’re one of the types who has particular vitriol saved especially for those who come from “brown” countries then you and I have a BIG problem.

Do I expect you to care? Course not, block me on here, job done.

And no, I’m no virtue signalling hand-wringing lefty. As some of you know my son is half Indian so is clearly not white. I don’t get along with his British Indian mother anymore (other than cordial discussions about our son) but I would defend her to the death if she was getting crap off people due to her perceived ‘culture’ (for the record she doesn’t even consider herself Indian. Sure she has the skin tone and features but feels about as Indian as I do).

Her parents however were immigrants, worked hard all their lives and paid their taxes, my son’s maternal grandfather only recently having to need to call on the NHS. In their home they maintain Indian culture just as they should be allowed to.

But have they, or any of their children/grandchildren caused any ‘multicultural’ problem? A big ‘eff no’. And during the 4/5 years I lived in Leicester with her did I ever encounter any problems caused by multiculturalism? NO.

Am I suggesting that all those coming to this country are angels? Of course not. But would stopping them coming seriously reduce crime? Saying yes to that is about as believable as anything that comes from Boris’ gob.

Rant over.

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

why do you want to know?

I already knew (thank you Paul for trying to be helpful though)

I'm no expert on the matter but rather than it being North African cultural differences causing riots I'd say it's more to do with a very dirty war fought for independence within a sizeable chunk of the French populations living memory and the conditions immigrant Algerians live in, segregated & to a degree persecuted, it's to easy to blame multiculturalism, it saves you having to look in the mirror and deal with the real underlying issues, certainly in this specific case

[Ms NTL]

Originally Posted by Hugh

The "umpteen crimes" were ‘failing to comply with traffic stop orders’…

Maybe...

Killing_of_Nahel_Merzouk

According to his family's lawyers, Merzouk did not have a criminal record,[21] but he was "known to the police, particularly for resisting arrest", and had been charged with resisting the previous weekend[22] and five times since 2021. His judicial file included 15 recorded incidents, including use of false license plates, driving without insurance, and for the sale and consumption of drugs.[23]

https://www.nouvelobs.com/faits-dive...des-faits.html

At first, police sources claimed that a vehicle had rammed into two police motorcyclists. But a video circulating on social networks, authenticated by AFP, showed that one of the two police officers held the driver at gunpoint, then that he fired at point-blank range in the chest of the driver when the car restarted. In the video, we hear: "You're going to take a bullet in the head" , without being able to attribute this sentence to anyone in particular.

[1andrew1]

There's an interesting article in the FT talking about the similarities between Britain and France. One thing it mentions is how good the statistical data is in the UK so that we can target spend appropriately whereas in France it's open to more anecdotal direction.

The article concludes

Narayana Murthy, the Indian billionaire, is fond of the saying that “in God we trust, but everyone else needs to bring data to the table”. It’s a phrase his son-in-law has reached for too. As it happens, this son-in-law, the prime minister Rishi Sunak, is himself good anecdotal evidence of the success of the British model. But the real secret lies in the fact that the UK doesn’t need to reach for anecdote to show its approach to integration is working.

Google: "When it comes to counting, Britain is number one"
https://www.ft.com/content/e276e8aa-...3-17fc62cca79e

[jonbxx]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

There's an interesting article in the FT talking about the similarities between Britain and France. One thing it mentions is how good the statistical data is in the UK so that we can target spend appropriately whereas in France it's open to more anecdotal direction.

The article concludes


Google: "When it comes to counting, Britain is number one"
https://www.ft.com/content/e276e8aa-...3-17fc62cca79e

Good article that!

There are some fundamental differences between France and the UK that also come in to play here. Modern France was born of revolution of course and the French culture stems from this. There are two guiding principles from post-revolution times that have the potential to cause conflict. First is that France and the French are one and the same - the country was born from the people. This works both ways so if you are born in France, you are expected to act ‘French’ with no excuses or leeway. Questioning the accepted and expected behaviours is questioning the country itself. This leads to tensions where freedom to act and express yourself in a ‘non French’ way is regarded as a direct affront on the country. It’s not just race and religion here - see how vigorously the French work to defend themselves against the influence of the anglosphere.

The second strand is France being an extremely secular country. Expression of religion is not encouraged. Compare this with the US for example where you would never see an atheist president. In France, an overtly religious president would be very unlikely. Following on from my first point, being openly religious is just not French. This is what lead to the burqa ban in France as the burqa is a clear symbol of religious affiliation. Due to secularism, the state does not fund religious institutions of course. However, there is funding for the grand cathedrals of France for preservation so there is a kind of funding for Christian places of worship through the back door.

Secularism is all well and good (I am very much atheist so have no skin in the game) but if it impacts some religious groups more than others, those groups will feel unfairly marginalised.

France is an unusual country where equality but on French terms stokes division rather than bringing people together. You could indeed argue that not enough multiculturalism is causing the problems in France rather than too much.

Sorry, long post! I find the French culture and attitudes fascinating since I read ‘Sixty Million Frenchmen Can’t Be Wrong: What Make the French So French’ by Jean-Benoit Nadeau 20 years ago

[Sephiroth]

A first class analysis by Jon. When I’m at a proper screen/keyboard I’ll grace Jon with my take on what he has said. Basically, my takeaway is that multiculturalism in France doesn’t work for the psyche reasons he’s given.

Can that happen here given the differences between France and the UK becomes a reasonable question.

[1andrew1]

Multiculturalism largely works in the UK amd has done for hundreds of years. The question is can it work in France?

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Multiculturalism largely works in the UK amd has done for hundreds of years.

It worked, by and large, because the influx of immigrants was low and steady.

The levels now are too high. We, literally, have nowhere to put them.

[jonbxx]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Multiculturalism largely works in the UK amd has done for hundreds of years. The question is can it work in France?

My feeling is that the UK is relatively tolerant as we tend to be a private group of people. The phrase ‘an Englishman’s home is his castle’ looms large. What we do in our private lives is private and, as long as no one gets hurt, we all respect this. This even extends to how we interact with each other. We are much more likely to meet each other in public than in each others homes. I love the saying that the pub is Englands front room.

We are all individuals with less of a sense of belonging to a group than some other countries. Interestingly, some of our most celebrated events in history are ones where we did all come together - two world wars and one World Cup and so on…

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Multiculturalism largely works in the UK amd has done for hundreds of years. The question is can it work in France?

Numbers, Andrew - numbers. Critical mass v

---------- Post added at 12:23 ---------- Previous post was at 12:21 ----------

Originally Posted by jonbxx

My feeling is that the UK is relatively tolerant as we tend to be a private group of people. The phrase ‘an Englishman’s home is his castle’ looms large. What we do in our private lives is private and, as long as no one gets hurt, we all respect this. This even extends to how we interact with each other. We are much more likely to meet each other in public than in each others homes. I love the saying that the pub is Englands front room.

We are all individuals with less of a sense of belonging to a group than some other countries. Interestingly, some of our most celebrated events in history are ones where we did all come together - two world wars and one World Cup and so on…

Isn’t test cricket a sort of acid test? Which Brits support whic team?

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by Pierre

It worked, by and large, because the influx of immigrants was low and steady.

The levels now are too high. We, literally, have nowhere to put them.

Not sure i agree with you on that statement, certain areas of the UK have high population density, overall though, the country i don't believe is 'full'.

---------- Post added at 12:43 ---------- Previous post was at 12:41 ----------

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Numbers, Andrew - numbers. Critical mass

Spoken like a true pound shop Enoch Powell