Rugby Rugby Union Thread - Page 12

SMHarman · 08-10-2007, 13:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ B

If the English hype was limited to Enlgish-only publications then I wouldn't have anything to say.

The Setanta commentator was in love with Johnny if that helps your case?

Osem · 09-10-2007, 08:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ B

If the English hype was limited to Enlgish-only publications then I wouldn't have anything to say.

If you read my post I did say that a win is a win - my reason for posting was to make sure no-one read anything more in to the victory than it was - a scraped win

---------- Post added at 12:45 ---------- Previous post was at 12:33 ----------

Put it this way - I feel about as English as you feel Welsh

Why should any of this bother you so much Russ? Did anyone claim it was a fine example of flowing rugby? You'll find it hard to find an Englishman or indeed a commentator who's overestimated England's performances over the last few years. If you're so worried about the biased media why do you seem to spend so much time reading it? Why not devote your energies to reading the Welsh media you appear to love and concentrate on Welsh Rugby instead of taking every opportunity to belittle the English game? You claim the media were hyping England's chances before the tournament as usual - let's have all the examples you can no doubt quote then. Where are all the pre-tournament headlines claiming England would win?

You imply your criticism is largely due to England's lack of tries - how many did we score against Wales earlier this year? Did that affect your contribution to the thread?

Quote If you hadn't mentioned it, I would have.

Utter utter utter shambles

Losing to a team like England is bad enough, but that sort of score truly shows the WRU couldn't organise the proverbial 'drink up' in a brewery. Sack the lot.

Not exactly an example of fair minded critique. The truth is that you will never give credit even when it's due.

If you feel so Welsh why keep reminding us ad nauseam that you are half English? Does it make you feel better about, excuse or validate your irrational vitriol? Do you feel having parents of a certain nationality is all that determines your nationality? I take it that will apply to any players the Welsh team may field who don't have Welsh parents - they're not truly Welsh either but that won't matter because they choose to wear a red shirt for a few years before they head back home.

Russ · 09-10-2007, 18:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Osem

Why should any of this bother you so much Russ? Did anyone claim it was a fine example of flowing rugby? You'll find it hard to find an Englishman or indeed a commentator who's overestimated England's performances over the last few years. If you're so worried about the biased media why do you seem to spend so much time reading it? Why not devote your energies to reading the Welsh media you appear to love and concentrate on Welsh Rugby instead of taking every opportunity to belittle the English game? You claim the media were hyping England's chances before the tournament as usual - let's have all the examples you can no doubt quote then. Where are all the pre-tournament headlines claiming England would win?

I didn't say they were claiming England would win. They were bigging you up more than the other home nations.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Osem

You imply your criticism is largely due to England's lack of tries - how many did we score against Wales earlier this year? Did that affect your contribution to the thread?

You scored a lot more - but that wasn't in the World Cup tournament and I don't remember it being referred to as a 'famous victory'.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Osem

Not exactly an example of fair minded critique. The truth is that you will never give credit even when it's due.

Did you miss the twice I've said a win is a win? Yes you guys beat one of the world's best teams, that can never be taken away from you.

Happy now?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Osem

If you feel so Welsh why keep reminding us ad nauseam that you are half English?

Because when I get accused of having 'irrational loathing', I mention it to show I could not possibly have a loathing for my father's nationality. If you like you can compare my feeling on the England team to how most of you feel when you play Argentina or Germany in football. Nothing vicious just a good healthy rivalry.

Tell you what - bookmark this page if you like, but if England win the WC convincingly (I mean by more than just a few points, and by actually playing better than the opposition) I will be the first in here offering my congratulations.

**Hugh** · 09-10-2007, 19:32

Being Scottish by birth, I have no axe to grind - I don't care if England win by playing better than the opposition or by just a few points (although I would prefer it); I will be pleased that a British team won.

SMHarman · 09-10-2007, 19:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by foreverwar

Being Scottish by birth, I have no axe to grind - I don't care if England win by playing better than the opposition or by just a few points (although I would prefer it); I will be pleased that a British team won.

Scotland Argentina was a gripping game, especially in those final few minutes, it almost looked like the underdogs England, France and Scotland were going to get through.
Then Parks cross kick ended that dream.

**Hugh** · 09-10-2007, 19:37

Yes, we're famous for snatching defeat from the jaws of victory......

Osem · 11-10-2007, 09:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ B

I didn't say they were claiming England would win. They were bigging you up more than the other home nations.

You scored a lot more - but that wasn't in the World Cup tournament and I don't remember it being referred to as a 'famous victory'.

Did you miss the twice I've said a win is a win? Yes you guys beat one of the world's best teams, that can never be taken away from you.

Happy now?

Because when I get accused of having 'irrational loathing', I mention it to show I could not possibly have a loathing for my father's nationality. If you like you can compare my feeling on the England team to how most of you feel when you play Argentina or Germany in football. Nothing vicious just a good healthy rivalry.

Tell you what - bookmark this page if you like, but if England win the WC convincingly (I mean by more than just a few points, and by actually playing better than the opposition) I will be the first in here offering my congratulations.

Russ - you can try to worm out of what you've written in the past now but in reality it's all so much hot air with you isn't it. If Wales won anything of any significance by hook, crook, disputed call or whatever you certainly wouldn't be moaning about it would you? If Wales won the RUWC without scoring a try you wouldn't complain. The media were bigging England up were they? Show us all the pretournament headlines doing that then Russ.

Even now you can't accept England played better than Australia - they didn't win by luck or by chance but by design. They destroyed Australia's forward effort and in so doing outplayed one of the favourites to win. No they didn't score tries but since when was that the only measure of beating another team? When Wales have beaten England in the past by a penalty or drop goal late in the game did that fact negate their win in your mind? How many teams past and present have deserved to win matches by a mile but not necessarily scored many more points than their opposition? When England destroyed Wales earlier this year did you give them any credit for all their tries?

Nobody here is frightened of logical, reasoned debate about any of this but so much of what you write appears to boil down to petty almost childish envy.

Despite England being classed as no hopers before the tournament and beating Australia fairly and squarely in a game totally controlled by England's forwards all you can muster is 'a win is a win' - Thank you so much for that - that's very magnanimous of you.

I don't think England can win the Cup - their backs have not performed well for a long time. It may not be pretty but for them to have progressed this far therefore is a huge achievement. Ditto Scotland - not necessarily pretty rugby but they've probably exceeded many people's expectations and are coming back after a long time in the rugby doldrums so very well done to them!

Russ · 11-10-2007, 12:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Osem

Russ - you can try to worm out of what you've written in the past now but in reality it's all so much hot air with you isn't it. If Wales won anything of any significance by hook, crook, disputed call or whatever you certainly wouldn't be moaning about it would you?

I haven't said you shouldn't be celebrating it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Osem

If Wales won the RUWC without scoring a try you wouldn't complain.

No and you shouldn't either if England win

Quote:

Originally Posted by Osem

The media were bigging England up were they? Show us all the pretournament headlines doing that then Russ.

The media always placed England first when it comes to the rugby headlines. And when you say that's because more of the viewers/readers/listeners are English, does that mean us Welsh can therefore have a reduction in the licence fee/cost of papers?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Osem

Even now you can't accept England played better than Australia - they didn't win by luck or by chance but by design. They destroyed Australia's forward effort and in so doing outplayed one of the favourites to win. No they didn't score tries but since when was that the only measure of beating another team?

On Radio 2 this morning there were listeners bipping on about how England "totally dismantled" Australia. As you know, that was not the case. It was a historic victory alright, but not the whitewash so many people are trying to make out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Osem

When Wales have beaten England in the past by a penalty or drop goal late in the game did that fact negate their win in your mind?

Yes - I'd rather Wales outclass and outplay their opponents when winning.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Osem

How many teams past and present have deserved to win matches by a mile but not necessarily scored many more points than their opposition? When England destroyed Wales earlier this year did you give them any credit for all their tries?

Of course not, that particular game was more a measure of how badly we'd sunk as opposed to any success on England's part.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Osem

Nobody here is frightened of logical, reasoned debate about any of this but so much of what you write appears to boil down to petty almost childish envy.

Really?

Why didn't Arsenal, Liverpool and Chelsea fans come on here and congratulate Man United on winning the premiership last season? Was that petty envy? Or just sporting rivalry? Maybe you could consider that's what I'm displaying instead of taking silly pops at me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Osem

Despite England being classed as no hopers before the tournament and beating Australia fairly and squarely in a game totally controlled by England's forwards all you can muster is 'a win is a win' - Thank you so much for that - that's very magnanimous of you.

What do you want, blood?

Osem · 14-10-2007, 00:19

Still no comment Russ???

Odd for you lol

You always seem to have lots to say when we lose or don't win well enough. Was the score good enough? Did we score enough tries for you? Probably not but then again England are in the final again and Wales aren't. Had Wales won that game in the very same manner you'd have wasted no time telling us all about how great it was. Sleep well matey

Still waiting for all those pretournament bigging up England headlines you mentioned BTW - finding it hard to find them ???

Your main gripe now seems to be with the English biased media and not to do with tries at all. We don't choose the media any more than you choose your Rugby Team sadly.

Sleep well Russ knowing that whatever else happens the 'zeroes' are heroes again - unlike Wales they've exceeded everyone's expectations.

Is likening yourself to begrudging football fans a defence or excuse now just like being half English?

Since you're half English we're all looking forward to all your 'objective' comments and compliments on tonights match btw.

Do I want blood? No. Not from you Russ because even if you gave it to England it would be insincere! Would rather have nothing at all from the likes of you. Keep your blood and keep your spite - it obviously takes your mind off failure.

Russ · 14-10-2007, 00:44

Oh do stop spouting nonsense, I've more than answered your silly arguments. And you were playing France so obviously I wanted England to win. Looking worryingly like a one-man team but still, world cup final eh?

pedantic · 14-10-2007, 00:54

France 9 England 14

Another great win for the boys. And this time we scored a try, should keep some people happy this time.

Osem · 14-10-2007, 01:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ B

Oh do stop spouting nonsense, I've more than answered your silly arguments. And you were playing France so obviously I wanted England to win. Looking worryingly like a one-man team but still, world cup final eh?

Silly arguments?? Which ones would they be Russ? Oh I know - they'd be the ones you can't answer lol The only one spouting nonsense has been you - still not come up with all those headlines eh??

The 'zeros' in the World Cup final again and half English Russ still can't even bring himself to say 'well done'. Now who looks silly?

Russ · 14-10-2007, 07:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Osem

Silly arguments?? Which ones would they be Russ? Oh I know - they'd be the ones you can't answer lol The only one spouting nonsense has been you - still not come up with all those headlines eh??

Did you read any of yesterday's papers?

Quote:

The 'zeros' in the World Cup final again and half English Russ still can't even bring himself to say 'well done'. Now who looks silly?

Well you to be honest. I'd have thought someone with such profound knowledge would have heard of sporting rivalry.

TheDaddy · 14-10-2007, 11:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ B

Did you read any of yesterday's papers?

Well you to be honest. I'd have thought someone with such profound knowledge would have heard of sporting rivalry.

You really object to headlines about one of the home nations being in a semi final? If Wales were ever in one you'd see a similar amount of coverage

Sporting rivalry is one thing, Scotland and Wales attitude towards the English is just so pointless, perhaps if their fans spent a little more time getting behind their team rather than indulging in such unimpressive characteristics they might do better in tournaments themselves

Shadow Demon UK · 14-10-2007, 11:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by pedantic

France 9 England 14

Another great win for the boys. And this time we scored a try, should keep some people happy this time.

What a game! I still cannot believe we are in the final again, the work rate and passion shown in the last two games is something any Englishman can be proud of and hopefully we can have a repeat of it against South Africa/Argentina in the final.