Reggae, reggae scripture....

[Mr Angry]

Firstly, Merry Christmas one and all!!

The bible has been translated into Jamaican patois for the very first time.

See "Jiizas - di buk we Luuk rait bout im".

With entries such as "De angel go to Mary and say to 'er, me have news we going to make you well 'appy. God really, really, bless you and him a walk with you all de time" it makes for a fascinating read / interpretation of scripture.

[Russ]

As it's Christmas I'm determined not to get grumpy but I cannot stand patois, not least because it'll be the dialect-of-choice for chavs within 2 years.

i remember there was a black country version done of the old testament when i was a kid ...very amusing

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by Russ

As it's Christmas I'm determined not to get grumpy but I cannot stand patois, not least because it'll be the dialect-of-choice for chavs within 2 years.

In fairness, the chavs you are referring to are unlikely to read any book, let alone a bible, whatever language it's printed in.

There are, however, a lot of practicing Christians in Jamaica, and I don't doubt that some of them speak Patois. Surely this could help them?

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Stuart

In fairness, the chavs you are referring to are unlikely to read any book, let alone a bible, whatever language it's printed ch book it's in.

It's got nothing to do with which book it's in. What I can't stand is the degradation of our language.

Originally Posted by Stuart

There are, however, a lot of practicing Christians in Jamaica, and I don't doubt that some of them speak Patois. Surely this could help them?

As long as the dialect is limited to their own country that's fine.

[Mr Angry]

Originally Posted by Russ

It's got nothing to do with which book it's in. What I can't stand is the degradation of our language.

What has Welsh got to do with it?

Originally Posted by Russ

As long as the dialect is limited to their own country that's fine.

Xenophobia - alive and well, sadly.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Mr Angry

What has Welsh got to do with it?

Being half English, I can say it's my language too.

Originally Posted by Mr Angry

Xenophobia - alive and well, sadly.

I suppose if I had something against the people and nationality then yeah, I guess.

[Mr Angry]

Originally Posted by Russ

Being half English, I can say it's my language too.

I'm not sure I understand what you are trying to say. If you are of mixed parentage (one of whom is / was English) that does not make you "half" anything from a nationality perspective. Nationality is determined by place of birth so effectively (assuming you were born in Wales) you can be Welsh / British but I don't believe you can be "half English".

Originally Posted by Russ

I suppose if I had something against the people and nationality then yeah, I guess.

Xenophobia is a lot more wide ranging than you think. It's not limited solely to "people and nationality".

On that basis then yeah, by fear of an exportation of the patois dialect you are keeping xenophobia alive and well.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Mr Angry

I'm not sure I understand what you are trying to say. If you are of mixed parentage (one of whom is / was English) that does not make you "half" anything from a nationality perspective. Nationality is determined by place of birth so effectively (assuming you were born in Wales) you can be Welsh / British but I don't believe you can be "half English".

That's up to you and your view but I think everyone else will understand what I mean.

Originally Posted by Mr Angry

Xenophobia is a lot more wide ranging than you think. It's not limited solely to "people and nationality".

On that basis then yeah, by fear of an exportation of the patois dialect you are keeping xenophobia alive and well.

Thanks for the clarification - and I won't waste any sleep worrying about it. I'm all for preservation of the British/English dialect. I accept there will be evolutions of it over time but I'm against such rapid b@stardisation of it such as what we have seen over the last 10-20 years and I don't just mean from Jamaica. I can't stand pointless Americanisms either.

If wanting to keep my national language as well-preserved as possible makes me 'xenophobic' then I won't worry about it. It doesn't affect how I interact with people of other nations so it's no real big issue to anyone other than those who choose to make it so.

I remember reading that the American language has actually evolved less than the English one since the war of independence. That is, American English is closer to traditional English than British English is.

The 'preservation' of the English language is a futile exercise anyway. That's not how it works. Words only become part of the mainstream is there is mass adoption, a minority cannot enforce linguistic change on everybody else. How would you protect it anyway? bAn words not in the English dictionary?

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Damien

I remember reading that the American language has actually evolved less than the English one since the war of independence. That is, American English is closer to traditional English than British English is.

The 'preservation' of the English language is a futile exercise anyway. That's not how it works. Words only become part of the mainstream is there is mass adoption, a minority cannot enforce linguistic change on everybody else. How would you protect it anyway? bAn words not in the English dictionary?

As I said, I'm against the rapid evolution of our language.

And I didn't say there was anything I could (or would) do anything about it - not that I think it was possible. I've never really been one of the "I don't agree with it so ban it" types.

[Mr Angry]

Originally Posted by Russ

That's up to you and your view but I think everyone else will understand what I mean.

It's not simply my "view", it's a fact. Nobody can be "half english" by nationality no matter what they or anyone might choose to understand.

Originally Posted by Russ

If wanting to keep my national language as well-preserved as possible makes me 'xenophobic' then I won't worry about it.

You mean the english language? Your national language (ie. as per your nationality) is Welsh. I wasn't for a second suggesting that you ought to worry about it - I was just pointing out your, now self acknowledged, xenophobic attitude on this particular matter.

Job done, obviously.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Mr Angry

It's not simply my "view", it's a fact. Nobody can be "half english" by nationality no matter what they or anyone might choose to understand.

Still, I'm pretty sure everyone, including yourself, know what I mean.

Originally Posted by Mr Angry

You mean the english language? Your national language (ie. as per your nationality) is Welsh.

My nationality is British. With English being the most-spoken language, mine is English.

Originally Posted by Mr Angry

I wasn't for a second suggesting that you ought to worry about it - I was just pointing out your, now self acknowledged, xenophobic attitude on this particular matter.

Job done, obviously.

If anyone expressing a foreign language or accent they don't like is what you consider xenophobic then I'll accept it.

If the people that media focus groups use in their research for marketing and advertising etc state which accents they find least appealing are who you'd regard as xenophobic then again, I'll wear the badge.

There are lots of accents I dislike. I find the German dialect to be very harsh, regimental and unfriendly. I'm not a fan of Glaswegian accents either. Not saying my own is in any way perfect but if that is what you consider xenophobic, no harm done. In 37 years years nobody else (including those who know me personally) has labelled me that way so your assertion won't be something I take seriously - no disrespect intended of course.

[Mr Angry]

Originally Posted by Russ

Still, I'm pretty sure everyone, including yourself, know what I mean.

Yes, clearly. What you mean is that you cannot distinguish between nationality and nationalism.

Originally Posted by Russ

My nationality is British. With English being the most-spoken language, mine is English.

There is no language called "British" ergo your national language - since you were born in Wales - is Welsh. English may be your "preferred" or "first" language but it is not - by definition - your "national" language.

Originally Posted by Russ

If anyone expressing a foreign language or accent they don't like is what you consider xenophobic then I'll accept it.

It's not what I consider xenophobic, it's defined within xenophobia - the earlier link refers.

Originally Posted by Russ

If the people that media focus groups use in their research for marketing and advertising etc state which accents they find least appealing are who you'd regard as xenophobic then again, I'll wear the badge.

Again, it's not simply a matter of what I consider to be xenophobic.

Originally Posted by Russ

There are lots of accents I dislike. I find the German dialect to be very harsh, regimental and unfriendly. I'm not a fan of Glaswegian accents either. Not saying my own is in any way perfect but if that is what you consider xenophobic, no harm done. In 37 years years nobody else (including those who know me personally) has labelled me that way so your assertion won't be something I take seriously - no disrespect intended of course.

None taken - and likewise to you. However, despite your life experience thus far, there's a first time for everything Russ.

I'm glad to have been able to have helped you understand your nationality, preferred language and xenophobia.

Happy boxing day.

[Russ]

I'm not xenophobic Mr A, but seeing as you're in a particularly argumentative mood today (ie you're right and everyone else is wrong), I'll leave you reply to this so you can have the last word.

(Born in England btw).