Troubled times for home networks

[TheNorm]

People who feel comfortable taking a computer apart sometimes forget how difficult "computer technology" is for the average person.

There are many technologies that only prove how useful they are when you actually try them.

Take for instance, broadband. The high price may have initially put people off but for those that tried it, and for the millions who have signed up since, the value of that faster, always-on link is apparent every day.
And then there are the technologies that prove how useless they are when you actually try them. Take for instance, home networking...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/6949607.stm

I'm glad the Powerline option was discussed, as it is far easier to set up than a wireless network. More secure, too.

[Raistlin]

Always worried about Ethernet over Power myself. I mean, my powerlines are connected to my neighbour's right?

I'm assuming that the packets just know that they should stop at my fuseboard

TBH, networking really isn't that hard - it's just a little awkward sometimes

Originally Posted by Raistlin

Always worried about Ethernet over Power myself. I mean, my powerlines are connected to my neighbour's right?

I'm assuming that the packets just know that they should stop at my fuseboard

Well yes - but under the road outside your house.

The circuits in your house are redistributed from your fuse board.

I don't think they would get to your neighbor - which is why you don't pay your neighbors 'lecky bill!

BTW - Please don't underline - use bold or italic - I thought it was link and tried to click on it!

[Raistlin]

Surely though the fuseboard in my house is connected to the circuits in the house, and the cables under the road? What stops the signals passing through the fuseboard and into the cables under the road?

Do they simply not have the power to get through the fuseboards?

[gazzae]

Found this on Google....

Question:
Can my neighbour listen to my data when he is connected with the same power supply?

Answer:
Your electric meter damps the signal enormously and represents a natural barrier to your neighbour. However, if you have unfavourably lying power supply lines it is possible that your neighbour benefits from an unmeant phase coupling. We absolutely advise you to use the internal device encryption! Entering a password which differs from the factory default will activate the encryption.

[Raistlin]

Thought as much, gotta love that phrase: "unmeant phase coupling", sounds almost erotic.

Cheers for that

[r1ch]

Your electric meter damps the signal enormously and represents a natural barrier to your neighbour. However, if you have unfavourably lying power supply lines it is possible that your neighbour benefits from an unmeant phase coupling. We absolutely advise you to use the internal device encryption! Entering a password which differs from the factory default will activate the encryption.

I think that they're talking crap here. AFAIK the meter doesn't normally contain anything that would 'damp the signal'. I think that they really rely on the noise floor being so high that the signal is lost after a 100m or so of cable.

[Shaun]

Originally Posted by LSainsbury

I don't think they would get to your neighbor - which is why you don't pay your neighbors 'lecky bill!

No, that's because they have a meeter just like you. Where do you think the electricity goes if not to the next house?

[xpod]

Always worried about Ethernet over Power myself. I mean, my powerlines are connected to my neighbour's right?

I'm assuming that the packets just know that they should stop at my fuseboard

TBH, networking really isn't that hard - it's just a little awkward sometimes

I dont fancy it myself......i`ll keep the Mb`s & Kilowatts seperate me thinks.
I`ve wired our whole house for ethernet practically,upstairs and down so a computer can be plonked in most rooms without any trouble.

That would be all well and good if there were enough o those Mb`s coming in in the first place of course.
Theres barely enough for first base....never mind a home run

[7@m3 G33k]

Originally Posted by TheNorm

People who feel comfortable taking a computer apart sometimes forget how difficult "computer technology" is for the average person.



http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/6949607.stm

I'm glad the Powerline option was discussed, as it is far easier to set up than a wireless network. More secure, too.

To be honest I'm a bit fed up hearing people in the media moaning that PCs/wireless/internet security are too difficult for your average consumer to setup properly. Does your average consumer install their own gas central heating or double glazing themselves? No they don't!

While the likes of PC World keep selling computer and networking kit as if they were TVs and DVD players your average punter will expect to be able to take home, unpack it, plug it in and have it working properly in no time. The expectation should be to pay a professional (like me! ) a reasonable price for a proper installation. In these circumstances WiFi beats a kludge like Powerline every time.

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by 7@m3 G33k

To be honest I'm a bit fed up hearing people in the media moaning that PCs/wireless/internet security are too difficult for your average consumer to setup properly. Does your average consumer install their own gas central heating or double glazing themselves? No they don't!

While the likes of PC World keep selling computer and networking kit as if they were TVs and DVD players your average punter will expect to be able to take home, unpack it, plug it in and have it working properly in no time. The expectation should be to pay a professional (like me! ) a reasonable price for a proper installation. In these circumstances WiFi beats a kludge like Powerline every time.

[Wicked_and_Crazy]

Originally Posted by LSainsbury

I don't think they would get to your neighbor - which is why you don't pay your neighbors 'lecky bill!

Not at all. The meter measures power and you only pay for power consumed through your meter. Any house can have a supply but until you consume power your meter will not spin.

In terms of will your neighbour be able to access you network. Firstly the output from a substation is a three phase supply which is load balanced. Therefore theoretically all the houses in your street will be split up between the three phases, each of which is 120 degrees appart, so you would have to find a neighbour on the same phase as you. (its not a good idea to get a cable with a plug on each end and plug one end in your house and the other end in your neighbours house as you would get a large bang of 415volts and a bit of smoke .

As already stated the meter will suppress the network signal and also the signal does not travel for infinate distance

[r1ch]

As already stated the meter will suppress the network signal

Why? As far as I can see, the apart from being swamped by noise as you get too far away the only other thing that would stop signal transmission is a transformer. If you take a look at the powerline white paper it pretty much says as much there - in the section on security it says that encryption should be used because typically more than one house is fed from the same transformer so close neighbours could potentially eavesdrop.


I strongly suspect that the bit about the meter presenting a physical barrier to the signal was added by the marketing dept.

[Wicked_and_Crazy]

Originally Posted by r1ch

Why? As far as I can see, the apart from being swamped by noise as you get too far away the only other thing that would stop signal transmission is a transformer. If you take a look at the powerline white paper it pretty much says as much there - in the section on security it says that encryption should be used because typically more than one house is fed from the same transformer so close neighbours could potentially eavesdrop.


I strongly suspect that the bit about the meter presenting a physical barrier to the signal was added by the marketing dept.

Im not sure about this but isnt a meter a bit like a transformer with the same input voltage as the output voltage? If that was the case it would provide isolation

[TheNorm]

Security measures are built-in to homeplug devices - see http://www.solwise.co.uk/net-powerline.htm

I have one device connected to my router, which means other devices can be set up anywhere there is a power socket - including the garage. You can even connect a network switch to a device, just like in a cabled LAN. I do think this is a much easier way for the average person to set up a home network, compared to wireless.