Wrestling = art

Russ · 22-05-2009, 15:57

I know most of you don't take wrestling seriously and doubt there is any real skill involved but I found this on my travels and demonstrates the purity of good wrestling timing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRUgedVG-G8

This is the sort of thing we can only hope to acheive.

STONEISLAND · 22-05-2009, 16:27

IMO Jujitsu more or an art.

Russ · 22-05-2009, 16:35

Jujitsu is a Martial Art obviously

But wrestling, done properly, is a different kind of art.

punky · 22-05-2009, 16:55

It is an art as its essientially acting. What I strongly disagree with is it being marketed as a sport which it definitely isn't. I don't think it is so much nowadays with WWE but it was in the WWF days in the early 90s.

Russ · 22-05-2009, 17:04

I agree to a point about the acting - but it goes past that. To do what we do safely and to put it all together, that's art. There isn't anyone involved in the business at any level who will claim it's a pure sport. Saving Private Ryan didn't claim to be a live action documentary, but while watching it we suspend our disbelief and that is how wrestling (again, when done properly) should be viewed.

Like in the clip above, I know of very few people who can get their timing that spot-on. They are artists too.

Niles Crane · 22-05-2009, 17:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ B

I know most of you don't take wrestling seriously and doubt there is any real skill involved but I found this on my travels and demonstrates the purity of good wrestling timing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRUgedVG-G8

This is the sort of thing we can only hope to acheive.

The problem is; when most people think of professional wrestling, they think of "sports entertainment", basically WWE et al. Which as you're obviously aware is nothing like the Japanese style, or even American indie promotions like Ring of Honor. It's the whole "sports entertainment" stuff which gives wrestling such a joke reputation in the West.

When was the last time you saw an exchange of moves like that in WWE? Or even close? TNA does seem to at least put a bit more emphasis into the actual wrestling side of things.

Russ · 22-05-2009, 17:30

You don't get much art in WWE these day as Vince marks out for the big guys who rely on power more than finesse. ROH.....we'll have to agree to disagree there. But British and Japanese styles, they're much more artistic.

soicky · 24-05-2009, 12:53

WWE is entertainment not a sport. Some people still don't know that, but yeah you've got to have good acting skills and good physique, if not than got to be really big, so there's something appealing about you, eg. The big show.

Personally i never watch it now, find it very boring, rather watch boxing or UFC.

Russ · 24-05-2009, 13:16

It's sport in the sense those taking part have to be athletes.

To be honest I find things like boxing and UFC to be boring. I'd have hated to have paid however much it was for the 2-round Hatton fight. At least with wrestling you know you'll get entertainment for longer. It's horses for courses though, each to their own.

soicky · 24-05-2009, 16:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ B

It's sport in the sense those taking part have to be athletes.

To be honest I find things like boxing and UFC to be boring. I'd have hated to have paid however much it was for the 2-round Hatton fight. At least with wrestling you know you'll get entertainment for longer. It's horses for courses though, each to their own.

Yeh, i know what you mean, but with boxing no one knows whats going to happen next, with wrestling it's all fixed, they try and make it appealing with their stunts but it's not real.

Graham M · 24-05-2009, 16:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by soicky

but it's not real.

Ask Russ about his bruises

Russ · 24-05-2009, 18:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by soicky

Yeh, i know what you mean, but with boxing no one knows whats going to happen next, with wrestling it's all fixed, they try and make it appealing with their stunts but it's not real.

Just to clarify - it's not all fixed. The results are predetermined but providing both workers know their stuff then 90% of what happens in the ring is off-the-cuff.

And "it's not real"....as Graham says, I have a nice list of injuries that say otherwise.

The majority of wrestlers (due to injuries I'm semi-retired but mainly referee these days) have a massive chip on our shoulders about not getting respect for what we do - we never claim it's a legit sport but we have to be very skillful and we suffer countless injuries and bumps which are all very real. And unless it's something life-threatening, the show must go on. Footballers can have injury time, the magic sponge, a bottle of lucozade etc. If we get injured in a match we carry on until the finish. Those are the unwritten rules.

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soicky · 25-05-2009, 16:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ B

Just to clarify - it's not all fixed. The results are predetermined but providing both workers know their stuff then 90% of what happens in the ring is off-the-cuff.

And "it's not real"....as Graham says, I have a nice list of injuries that say otherwise.

The majority of wrestlers (due to injuries I'm semi-retired but mainly referee these days) have a massive chip on our shoulders about not getting respect for what we do - we never claim it's a legit sport but we have to be very skillful and we suffer countless injuries and bumps which are all very real. And unless it's something life-threatening, the show must go on. Footballers can have injury time, the magic sponge, a bottle of lucozade etc. If we get injured in a match we carry on until the finish. Those are the unwritten rules.

</chip temporarily removed>

I think you misunderstood me when i said it's not real, i was saying it in the sense like you said the match is predetermined.

There different types of wrestling, i was talking about wwe, i believe the other is the real wrestling, where anything can happen, i think you are talking about this one.

Russ · 25-05-2009, 16:21

Jim Cornette famously once said "there's only 2 types of wrestling, good wrestling and bad wrestling"

I'm talking about pro-wrestling, the WWE kind.

STONEISLAND · 01-06-2009, 15:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ B

Jujitsu is a Martial Art obviously

But wrestling, done properly, is a different kind of art.

I take it back Russ!!!

After seeing some early UFC with the likes of Dan Severn and Don Frye wrestling is an art a MMA!!

Can I suggest anyone who disagrees watches Don Frye vs Amaury Bitetti, Amaury Bitetti who is a very good jujitsu fighter but Don destroys him!!
One of the most uncomfortable to watch fights I have ever seen, one word BRUTAL!!!!!!

EDIT:

WWE kind of is pantomime though.