Unstoppable migration?

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

Precisely.

I have no idea how many low paid workers tried to move although would suggest that trying to move is irrelevant. I would speculate not that many given that we're in a relatively good place for job availability and many other places likewise in a good place aren't in the habit of importing unskilled labour en masse.

There are an awful lot of things in this world where the outcome is the same but the route/method make a lot of difference.



Actually yes, there is.

http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/h_to_k/i...tion/#entering





I imagine this is because we aren't a fascist state. At least, not yet.

This is subject to change of course.

Apologies, you're right, I should of made myself clearer... No offence is commited by them entering British soil, it's the fail to claim that then causes the no leave offence.


To the bolded part, why then are 1.3m migrating?

How exactly does the route/method make a difference? It's a means to an ends. The end objective is the same.

A lot of people seem to make the assumption that every person in places such as Calais are unskilled and potentially low paid employees despite well publicised news reports highlighting highly skilled people such as Dr's etc. that are there.

We as a nation are as guilty of economic migration as those that currently live in squalor. The only difference as we have already agreed is the route taken. Whilst we do it on commercial airlines they asphyxiate in the back of HGV's drown as boats capsize.

My biggest annoyance seems to be the attitude taken (not just on here) that lets let every other country deal with it so long as it doesn't affect us.

People need to realise that this is a an issue that requires a different thought process to lead to resolution. The current stance of stamping feet whilst putting fingers in hears and shouting 'La la la I can't hear you' isn't going to work.

[Osem]

At least 20 migrants have been found dead in a lorry abandoned in a motorway lay-by near the eastern border with Hungary, the Austrian authorities say.

The number of dead could be as high as 50, police say.

The grim find comes as a summit focusing on migration takes place in the Austrian capital, Vienna.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34073534

A record number of 107,500 migrants crossed the EU's borders last month and on Wednesday police counted more than 3,000 crossing into Serbia.

Wonder what the true figures are.

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

Apologies, you're right, I should of made myself clearer... No offence is commited by them entering British soil, it's the fail to claim that then causes the no leave offence.

No. These people must claim asylum at the border. If they do not and pass the UK border they are breaking the law.

If these people were to obtain entry to the UK, for example in the back of a truck, the moment that truck has been allowed through by an immigration officer if they haven't claimed asylum they have broken the law as they are in the UK 'without leave'.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1971/77/section/24

Illegal entry and similar offences.

(1)A person who is not [F1a British citizen] shall be guilty of an offence punishable on summary conviction with a fine of not more than [F2[F3level 5]on the standard scale] or with imprisonment for not more than six months, or with both, in any of the following cases:—

(a)if contrary to this Act he knowingly enters the United Kingdom in breach of a deportation order or without leave;

Entering the UK = crossing the border. Not claiming asylum at the border but getting across it without approval from an immigration officer is an offence.

---------- Post added at 17:36 ---------- Previous post was at 17:29 ----------

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

We as a nation are as guilty of economic migration as those that currently live in squalor. The only difference as we have already agreed is the route taken. Whilst we do it on commercial airlines they asphyxiate in the back of HGV's drown as boats capsize.

No. Generally we apply to the government of the country in question for permission to migrate. We obtain work permits, perhaps permanent residency.

There's an awful lot of difference between that and arriving at the border, trying to circumvent our lawful processes by claiming asylum.

Any economic migrant who tries to claim asylum as a way of circumventing the appropriate processes should be returned to their point of origin immediately.

If these people want to migrate to the UK for economic reasons they should be applying for visas. If they can pay people smugglers to try and get them into the UK they can pay visa processing charges.

Exactly the same goes for any British who attempt to circumvent the rules of a potential host nation. It's disrespectful to those whose legitimate claims to refuge they are copying, it's disrespectful to those legitimately applying for economic migration and it's disrespectful to the host nation to start off a relationship with it by flouting its laws.

If you think we should reward this illegal behaviour that's entirely your prerogative. I personally believe a zero-tolerance approach to people smuggling would be a good start alongside a pan-European plan to utterly reject abuse of the asylum system while doing everything within our power to fulfil our humanitarian obligations to those in need.

[papa smurf]

EU president says Calais migrant crisis is BRITAIN'S problem - not the EU's

EU boss Jean-Claude Juncker today took a thinly-veilled sideswipe at Britain and France saying the Calais migrant chaos was all their fault and NOTHING to do with the European Union.


http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/601...TAIN-S-problem

[Osem]

Does that idiot think this problem has nothing to do with the EU's much bigger migrant problem? All that's happening in Calais is, currently, a much smaller scale version of what's happening in Italy, Greece, Hungary and other EU countries. Trickle down. Does Juncker believe that's not the case and it's their fault too?

IMHO open borders is one of the main reasons for this crisis and what best characterises the Eurocrats is a complete refusal to accept responsibility for any negative consequences arising from their utter fixation with a single European state. Until they're forced to accept reality and start dealing with the problems at source there will be ever more migrants and ever more tragic deaths. Germany will not continue to soak up vast numbers of migrants (whether genuine refugees or illegals) and nobody else wants a similar problem so what's Juncker going to do about that?

[Osem]

Hungarian police say they have arrested four people over the discovery of the bodies of 71 migrants, thought to be Syrian, in a lorry in Austria.

Three of those arrested are Bulgarian and one is Afghan.

The victims included 59 men, eight women and four children who are thought to have been dead for about two days.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34083337

There's been lots of talk about getting tough with people smugglers and traffickers, well I hope that those proved responsible for this receive the harshest possible punishments.

[figgyburn]

Attachment 26294

Welcome to the future of the European union.

[Jimmy-J]

The all-male group, which included 14 Iraqis aged between 17 and 45, nine Iranians aged between 17 and 28, two Vietnamese aged 16 and 26, a 15-year-old Turk and a 42-year-old Syrian, were found at Cobham Services in Surrey at 10.50am this morning, Surrey Police said.

The driver of the lorry - a 50-year-old Italian man - was also detained.

The Home Office said that all have been transferred to immigration detention where they will be questioned further, with five claiming to be minors.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/601...m-services-M25

[figgyburn]

Vietnamese!.That's some journey.

[Ignitionnet]

Interesting that the group was all male. Odd for refugees; you'd have thought there'd be women and children there too.

[Taf]

Originally Posted by figgyburn

Vietnamese!.That's some journey.

Vietnamese are often behind wacky baccy production in europe, brought in by gangs.

[Osem]

Given the huge number of truck movements crossing the channel, I reckon those apprehended in this manner represent the tip of an iceberg the scale of which we can only guess. By dodging this issue for many years, all we've done in Europe is allowed it to get out of control and the results are now clear for all to see with tragic results on both sides.

[Osem]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34110406

The definition of chaos.

Trains carrying hundreds of migrants have arrived in the German city of Munich, after Hungary abandoned efforts to register them under EU rules.

Some 1,400 people had arrived in Munich by Tuesday morning, after travelling through Austria, and more were due.

Hungarian police have now closed a main station in Budapest in an attempt to bring the crisis under control.

So Germany has already accepted hundreds of thousands of migrants this year and the result is that more migrants are heading to Germany and they're now struggling to cope. What a complete surprise!

To those still in denial about the scale of this problem, tell that to the Germans (Europe's largest economy & the world's 4th largest) who're now asking for more help to distribute the migrants around Europe. Quite understandably they want other countries to share the burden yet so far as I can see all that results in is more migrants being encouraged to make the journey with the huge problems that creates in places like Turkey, Hungary, Greece, Italy....

Anyway it's great that there's going to be an 'emergency' EU meeting about all this. Pity it's going to take 2 weeks to sort out but then what do we expect within the EU? Events in Europe in recent years have shown up the Schengen agreement to be just as outdated and open to abuse as the asylum rules are. Who'd have thought eh? It's so much more important for tourists to endure checks at borders and it's not as though this problem has been going on for years and turned a blind eye to in any way is it...

IMHO the level of denial, ineptitude and political dithering displayed by the EU in respect of this issue is both staggering and alarming.

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by Osem

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34110406

The definition of chaos.



So Germany has already accepted hundreds of thousands of migrants this year and the result is that more migrants are heading to Germany and they're now struggling to cope. What a complete surprise!

To those still in denial about the scale of this problem, tell that to the Germans (Europe's largest economy & the world's 4th largest) who're now asking for more help to distribute the migrants around Europe. Quite understandably they want other countries to share the burden yet so far as I can see all that results in is more migrants being encouraged to make the journey with the huge problems that creates in places like Turkey, Hungary, Greece, Italy....

Anyway it's great that there's going to be an 'emergency' EU meeting about all this. Pity it's going to take 2 weeks to sort out but then what do we expect within the EU? Events in Europe in recent years have shown up the Schengen agreement to be just as outdated and open to abuse as the asylum rules are. Who'd have thought eh? It's so much more important for tourists to endure checks at borders and it's not as though this problem has been going on for years and turned a blind eye to in any way is it...

IMHO the level of denial, ineptitude and political dithering displayed by the EU in respect of this issue is both staggering and alarming.

I don't think one person on this thread who has denied that there is an issue or the scale of the issue. The disagreements are based on those who want to 'shut up shop' and those that want to show a little more compassion to our fellow man.

Lets not forget, we need to hold ourselves accountable for a good percentage of this, due to our actions in certain countries (Libya, Syria, Iraq to name but three)

PS it's Schengen II the original was quite a while ago IIRC

[Osem]

Hundreds of migrants have been protesting outside a major railway station in the Hungarian capital after police sealed off the terminal to stop them travelling through the EU.

Crowds chanted "Germany, Germany" and waved train tickets after being forced to leave Keleti station in Budapest.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34113471

Not to worry, though, the Eurocrats are having an emergency meeting in 2 weeks time...