Unstoppable migration?

[Osem]

Originally Posted by RizzyKing

There is no level of realistic investment that can keep pace with the level of immigration we have had for too long now it just isn't possible without bankrupting the country. We have a limited level of social resources and we have to not just cut the numbers coming in but deporting the large number that are here that shouldn't be. It isn't going to be pleasant and it isn't going to be easy but it's got to be done the situation in some areas is already creating issue's and it's spreading to more areas.

We have had a period of austerity we have crumbling public services and communities that have had their entire balance interfered with creating unnecessary social tension. All because one group of cretinous politicians wanted to play a big social experiment thank you new labour and gutless politicians afterwards thank you conservatives that did nothing beyond rhetoric to correct it.

Some of us have been saying that for years. It's quite evident from around the globe that this scale of uncontrolled migration creates serious pressures and tensions. These were masked during the so called 'boom' years but now things have been much tougher economically, the problems are becoming much more apparent and they're only going to get worse. There's not only the tensions with the host population but between the myriad of nationalities who've been allowed to come here in large numbers bringing their rivalries with them. Not exactly a recipe for quiet co-existence...

It's quite evident that there's been no foresight applied to this problem and migration has been used by successive governments to suit themselves - Labour in terms of social engineering but both parties in their blind pursuit of increased GDP the 'easy' way. Forget the difficult stuff like productivity, lets just expand the population to make the number grow. If we thought we had an age/pensions time bomb a decade ago, well it's going to get a lot worse and the answer is to have controlled migration but to restrict those who are allowed to remain and gain citizenship rights. That's the unpalatable reality and the longer we leave it the harder it will be to tackle these problems.

The same applies to the mass migration we are seeing in Europe and elsewhere. It can't be allowed to continue because there are countless millions around the globe who'd like a new life somewhere else and the more who're taken in, the more will come, the more desperate they will be and the harder they will fight to be accepted. What we have now is chaos which is being exploited by people traffickers and causing many economic migrants to take their chances. We can't accept them all but where are our leaders in deciding at what point enough has to be enough?

Add to that there is growing opposition to immigration in a number of EU states this is not just a problem within the UK and it has to be sorted out starting now because I don't want to start seeing headlines of violence against immigrants. My biggest criticism at all the western european governments is this race to the bottom they are all engaged in when we should be spending the time and resources being wasted atm raising these other countries up in standards rather then lowering ours down which is not tenable for much longer.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by RizzyKing

Add to that there is growing opposition to immigration in a number of EU states this is not just a problem within the UK and it has to be sorted out starting now because I don't want to start seeing headlines of violence against immigrants. My biggest criticism at all the western european governments is this race to the bottom they are all engaged in when we should be spending the time and resources being wasted atm raising these other countries up in standards rather then lowering ours down which is not tenable for much longer.

It definitely is not just a UK problem as Angela Merkel will find out in due course.

[daveeb]

Originally Posted by Chrysalis

Whatever way you want to look at it we cannot pretend there is a solution without investment. Even with no immigration we will have net population growth.

I suggest a combination of managing population growth and investment.

Management can be achieved by applying quotas to immigration, as well as limiting the amount of social security payments to large families to discourage constant breeding.

However we need some form of growth, and growth is natural anyway, so we have to also invest more in infrastructure so yes that means.

Housing
Roads
Schools
Hospitals
Police
Social Security
Other forms of public servers etc.

This is funded by growing GDP, and not irresponsibly cutting taxes just to keep a wealthy few happy, we probably should be increasing taxes right now not decreasing.

The barrier to this is the amount of people in the UK (probably a majority) who think society is not important and everyone should just look after themselves. As a result people dont like paying taxes.

The stuff I listed, was happening routinely throughout the 50s,60s and 70s before we had a shift of thinking from the 80s onwards.

The only way we could consider what we doing now as reasonable is to start killing people to avoid the growth.

Also 10% of NHS staff is not some insignificant number, thats a lot of people, also I expect they congregated in certain parts of the country e.g. I think well over 10% of NHS staffing in Leicester is manned by immigrants or immigrant parent families. Nearly every pharmacist is owned by asians in Leicester as well, may well be british born asians but at some point in their family tree probably migrated to here from India or Pakistan.

Nearly all my delivery drivers from tesco are not white british, pretty much every taxi driver is not white british, my postman is a muslim, these people arent just benefit unemployed scroungers, many do contribute to the country. So alot of the blame is from governments not investing in infrastructure to handle the growth.

Been blunt I would say infrastructure is far more important than government debt, even if we went bankrupt I would say it has to be done. The current thinking is very short termist.

Also there is money been spent but very badly.

Think how many homes the HS2 costs would pay for.

To this day ignition is probably the only high earner I have seen admit on a forum he would accept paying more taxes. Just about everyone else who has the means see's it as theft.

Well apart from the going bankrupt bit that's a great post, especially the last paragraph

[Osem]

The 'going bankrupt' bit would be the inevitable result.

[daveeb]

Originally Posted by Osem

The 'going bankrupt' bit would be the inevitable result.

So the tories would have everyone believe.

No it's economic fact if we're talking about current immigration numbers.

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by ianch99

Totally agree. The 80's was the turning point: Governments in the Uk and the US started telling people that greed is good. they also said that if you can get money, you should keep as much as you can. Me first, followed by Me second, and Me third and possibly forth.

If there is any left then maybe I will think about giving some to "charity".

We are in a Me first society and not a We first society. We should take some lessons from the Nordic Model although there are some things that do not seem appropriate.

Maybe we should start the cull with the immigrants?

Funnily enough the Nordic countries always come top of the happiness polls, perhaps there might just be a correlation...

[heero_yuy]

Nearly one in ten people living in Britain are foreign, a major international study shows.

The 5.95million is double the proportion of a decade ago and has been bumped up by a recent influx from the EU, according to a report by the Paris-based Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD).

The OECD said EU nationals accounted for “all the growth” in 2014-2015.

It also revealed UK had the third highest rate of “permanent” immigration in the advanced world in 2015 at 378,800 – below only the United States and Germany – it added.

Source

We're drowning in them.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by heero_yuy

Source

We're drowning in them.

In 2015 maybe we were behind Germany but I don't suppose that was the case before Merkel's welcome. Therein lies the UK's problem, these figures aren't sporadic blips, they show a consistent trend over a decade and a half. There's still no credible plan to control immigration and toughen up the rules on citizenship. Without those things the population will continue to grow along with all the attendant pressure on services, infrastructure, the environment and social unrest.

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

Funnily enough the Nordic countries always come top of the happiness polls, perhaps there might just be a correlation...

it's vodka

[Osem]

Originally Posted by papa smurf

it's vodka

... and one day unless they change their policy they'll wake up not so happy but it'll be too late. That's what a lack of foresight in matters such as these does. I'd rather we acted before it's too late.

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by papa smurf

it's vodka

It's gotta be something, what with their cars being so dull they'd rather commit suicide than drive them

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

It's gotta be something, what with their cars being so dull they'd rather commit suicide than drive them

Yeah, boring

[Kursk]

Originally Posted by ianch99

Yeah, boring

Is it scalextric? No fully-grown adult would be seen dead in that. Richard Crashbang Hammond might like it though.