Huge fire at West London tower block

Apparently the developer sold them to the government 'at cost'

[RichardCoulter]

Originally Posted by RizzyKing

There should be no amnesty and no payments to illegal immigrants and even the thought of that demonstrates why this country is becoming a joke. From what I've read so far it was a tenant on the fourth floor responsible for the fire and they just left without raising the alarm great neighbour there. The decisions that led to that cladding need to be asked and answered but we also have to look at responsibility that may lie with the tenants as well, I've been to tower blocks before where doors were wedged open and smoke detectors disabled because people wanted to smoke in comfort. There is definately blame and responsibility within the council but at this stage all avenues of blame and responsibility need to be looked at.

Totally agree. Whilst I have sympathy for everyone involved on a humane level, politically and financially I don't think that those who should have not been in the building should be compensated.

Boris Johnson made a sensible argument for doing this though. He believes that by doing so the body count will be more accurate and those responsible can be held to account for all the deaths.

---------- Post added at 15:52 ---------- Previous post was at 15:42 ----------

Originally Posted by nomadking

I'm trying to work out how a claimed 600 people would fit into a total of 225 bedrooms, in mainly 1 or 2 bedroom flats.

It's well known that foreign persons are willing to put up with overcrowding and 'bed in a shed' situations for various reasons, without a thought for safety, regulations etc.

Originally Posted by Osem

I wouldn't be at all surprised if there were a number of people living/staying there who shouldn't have been. Sub-letting is an increasingly common problem in our major cities and then of course there could well have been family friends who were being put up unofficially. That'll be why the police said quite clearly the other day that people should report 'anyone' who'd been in the block at the time and they had no interest in why they were there.

I do think the authorities need to be 'interested' in this problem, however, because overcrowding tends to lead to rule breaking (e.g. overloaded electrical outlets) which can also be the cause of fires etc. Yes they do need to be sensitive in the circumstances but IMHO they also need to know that the people in those flats were supposed to be there and that occupancy rules were being followed.

Anyone who doubts the scale of this problem ought to check out some of the rogue landlord type TV documentaries which show how common serious sub-letting is - I've seen examples in which dozens of people, almost always foreign nationals, have been crammed into very modest, usually unsafe houses with just mattresses on the floor. They're being terribly exploited and put at severe risk by landlords who have no morals at all and they don't feel able to complain because they're either illegal immigrants or have no other choice of where to live.

Very true. Good point about overloading electrical sockets too. Also, staircases are built to regulations for safety reasons. I assume that they will have been built to accommodate the evacuation of the maximum number of people expected to be in the block at any one time.

Originally Posted by Paul M

Hmmm ;


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40357280

I wonder if this is to include those that were in the block illegally?

Either way, if I was born in this country and currently homeless I'd be pretty annoyed about this.

[BenMcr]

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

I wonder if this is to include those that were in the block illegally?

Show me anything anywhere that indicates that could be the case.

Either way, if I was born in this country and currently homeless I'd be pretty annoyed about this.

Why?

The people in the block were previously shown as eligible for housing based on the council's rules, and now they are being rehoused.

Nowhere does it say that anyone is getting other than that which they previously had, and for some people they may end up needing less because they will have lost family.

Nor have I seen anything to say this is this any different than if any other housing association or council property was taken out of the housing stock - barring the horrific circumstances in which the change is happening. Those in the property would be rehoused where appropriate.

[Hom3r]

Are there any other ways to legally download the single as I refuse to put iTunes on my PC.

[BenMcr]

It's also on Spotify https://open.spotify.com/track/5y9VR6oWTFjtprI6Zia6aB

[papa smurf]

Kensington residents OUTRAGED at plans to rehouse Grenfell fire survivors nearby


RESIDENTS of Kensington’s luxury properties have been bombarded for complaining that the rehousing of the Grenfell Tower survivors will cause property prices to plummet

Anna, who is in her 60’s, is not happy to see the survivors rehoused in a new development close to her flat.

She told the Independent: “North Kensington is not this Kensington. They should be in a place where they are happy, but not here. I don’t want them here.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/819...rent-residents

[heero_yuy]

I wonder how long it will be before we hear stories of those rehoused in luxury appartments trashing them and selling off the contents?

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by heero_yuy

I wonder how long it will be before we hear stories of those rehoused in luxury appartments trashing them and selling off the contents?

just needs banging music blaring out 24/7 pee and puke on the stairs and in the lifts old furniture on the walkways the odd car on bricks and it's home sweet home

[denphone]

Oh what wonderful stereotyping.....

[Osem]

It's all very well criticising the residents of the chosen development but how many of the perennial great and the good choose to surround themselves with similarly needy people. There seems to be a massive 'industry' in exaggerated sympathy amongst some really very rich celebrities who like to make a big fuss about helping the cause when that help usually amounts to launching singles, attending lavish fundraising events, donating concert proceeds but very little else. The truth is most of these people would be just as concerned if those who've lost their homes and possessions were going to be housed in their swanky streets, estates and country bolt holes. I can see there being problems if I am honest, maybe even legal challenges to what's being done and with this large number of people needing housing at the same time that's sadly going to be inevitable.

As far as I'm concerned the little lad who donated his pocket money, those who gave what little they had to spare and those who got out there on the ground doing the dirty stuff are far more deserving of recognition (not that they wanted any) than many of those who seem to appear at times like this when there's PR to be had but soon disappear thereafter. I dare say it makes them feel better when they sing songs about need, poverty and injustice when they have so much more than those they reckon they're concerned about.

[denphone]

A number of tower blocks have same flammable cladding, says Theresa May and Theresa May confirms cladding forms part of criminal investigation.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...-politics-live

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-po...ments-40353862

Originally Posted by Osem

It's all very well criticising the residents of the chosen development but how many of the perennial great and the good choose to surround themselves with similarly needy people. There seems to be a massive 'industry' in exaggerated sympathy amongst some really very rich celebrities who like to make a big fuss about helping the cause when that help usually amounts to launching singles, attending lavish fundraising events, donating concert proceeds but very little else.

I know people who work at the center that formed the base camp for support and some celebrities turn up in private, such as Adele, to offer help. Remember after George Michael died and it turned out he had been working at a homeless shelter for years without publicity?

Celebrities are just like normal people. There will be those who want to help, those who do it because it makes them feel better about themselves and those who do it for cynical self-promotion. All are things that apply to ordinary people too.

The main difference is they have a platform to amplify their cause in a way ordinary people do not. I see little reason to object to that when the cause is so uncontroversial as raising money for those that have lost their home. Does it matter if they are doing it to feel better about themselves? That's what a lot of people who do good do it for, doing good for others makes you feel good too.

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by denphone

A number of tower blocks have same flammable cladding, says Theresa May and Theresa May confirms cladding forms part of criminal investigation.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...-politics-live

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-po...ments-40353862

If only it was the cladding that had been the problem. IT WASN'T. It was the insulation. When are people going to get that? Why hasn't anybody(other than myself) checked out the plans and materials used? The materials used are rated ok, IF the installation of them is designed properly.

[Arthurgray50@blu]

For members who don't live anywhere near the Tower block fire.

I have worked in the area, and live approx. 5 miles from this area. The houses that are on there doorstep are MULTI MILLIONAIRES who don't give a damn about the 'poor' of our society such as social living.

And for rich residents who say that by the 'social residents' living in the Posh pads. I say go xxxx yourself. People like that make me puke.

There are many houses in that area, that are empty as the owners live abroad. and have the houses for tax breaks.

Yes, Simon Cowell lives not far from the Tower Block either.


The residents of the Tower Block need all the help it can get. In fact my line manager is down there today helping out on official business

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Damien

I know people who work at the center that formed the base camp for support and some celebrities turn up in private, such as Adele, to offer help. Remember after George Michael died and it turned out he had been working at a homeless shelter for years without publicity?

Celebrities are just like normal people. There will be those who want to help, those who do it because it makes them feel better about themselves and those who do it for cynical self-promotion. All are things that apply to ordinary people too.

The main difference is they have a platform to amplify their cause in a way ordinary people do not. I see little reason to object to that when the cause is so uncontroversial as raising money for those that have lost their home. Does it matter if they are doing it to feel better about themselves? That's what a lot of people who do good do it for, doing good for others makes you feel good too.

I have no problem what they do behind the scenes and I'm very well aware of many of the very good deeds done by George Michael and others. It matters to me if they are doing it primarily to obtain PR and rebuild flagging careers and of course that doesn't apply to all of them. I just find it very distasteful that people who have more money than they could ever know what to do with so often choose to give in a manner which costs ordinary people who are the ones who're buying the records and attending the charity concerts. What I detest is the pious mentality through which some of these people seek to give the world the impression they really care when their caring usually involves costs or sacrifices borne by others who have far far less than them.

The other day IIRC Andy Murray pledged his Queens Club winnings to the cause. Why did he need to tell the world that? He's done similar before IIRC, promising so much charity money for every ace he served at Wimbledon or something like that. Why not do what George Michael did and just give some money and keep quiet? As it turned out his winnings weren't very much and I'd like to think he's done what he should have in the first place if he's really interested in that charity. I'm sure he's given to other charities but just don't feel comfortable with the need to do it in this manner. To be fair, at least he didn't promise to house people with no real intention of doing so like so many other people did so disgracefully.

On the one had yes it's nice that charities benefit either way but it leaves a really bitter taste in my mouth that ultra rich celebrities boost their careers and get lauded whilst the real heroes get overlooked apart just like they all too often do. It'll be the rich celebs who get the recognition and dine out on this not the heroes like the guy in Manchester I heard this morning on BBC radio who was one of the first to respond to the bomb attack in Manchester and has been finding life since really very tough.

---------- Post added at 12:25 ---------- Previous post was at 12:15 ----------

Originally Posted by nomadking

If only it was the cladding that had been the problem. IT WASN'T. It was the insulation. When are people going to get that? Why hasn't anybody(other than myself) checked out the plans and materials used? The materials used are rated ok, IF the installation of them is designed properly.

This is now a political problem and no government/politician is going to want to be seen to allow the further use of these material and then be accused of not caring about social housing etc. etc. It doesn't matter what the experts claim if the political damage caused is going to be significant. It wouldn't surprise me if there's a complete overreaction to this and decisions will be made that contradict expert opinion for political reasons. Spend countless millions of pounds (possibly unnecessarily) and you can make yourself look good but try telling people in flats clad in the same stuff that it's safe, even if it has been done properly and is safe. They're going to believe what they want to believe now and I can understand why...