Brexit discussion

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

In a face-to-face discussion, if someone raised this amount of evidence then the person arguing against it would concede that they are wrong and we'd shake hands, be friends and prepare our ground better for the next discussion.
I really find it a bit awkward that this doesn't seem to happen on online forums

I think everyone gets that the UK's NET contribution is around £8bn after rebates and deductions. But the 350M per week figure is what we "would" be expected to send before the deductions, rebates are applied. It's not the figures here, it's the semantics.

I don't find anything particularly wrong with what Boris said in the Telegragh article, but it was a fine example for hardline remainers and the MSM, to swoop on him because of his timing of the article, in an attempt to get him fired by Mrs May.

---------- Post added at 11:04 ---------- Previous post was at 11:01 ----------

Originally Posted by Maggy J

Well which lies in particular?

Are you being serious? All the ones I posted not many posts ago. I even bullet pointed them for clarity.

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/sh...&postcount=202

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Mick

I think everyone gets that the UK's NET contribution is around £8bn after rebates and deductions. But the 350M per week figure is what we "would" be expected to send before the deductions, rebates are applied. It's not the figures here, it's the semantics.

I don't find anything particularly wrong with what Boris said in the Telegragh article, but it was a fine example for hardline remainers and the MSM, to swoop on him because of his timing of the article, in an attempt to get him fired by Mrs May.

Awks. It was the Statistics Regulator who called Boris out, not remainers. If hardline leavers hadn't tried to try and defend Boris then the matter would have died a death.

Originally Posted by Mick

Are you being serious? All the ones I posted not many posts ago. I even bullet pointed them for clarity.

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/sh...&postcount=202

If you have links preferably to impartial fact-checking services with the actual wording of these statements then I'm sure Maggie can help determine if they were lies or not.

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Awks. It was the Statistics Regulator who called Boris out, not remainers. If hardline leavers hadn't tried to try and defend Boris then the matter would have died a death.

And how did we get to know about the Statistics Regulator calling out Boris?

The letter being shared out to the MSM, Boris share this letter with the Press, I think not.

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

If you have links preferably to impartial fact-checking services with the actual wording of these statements then I'm sure Maggie can help determine if they were lies or not.

These were the lies that were said, how convenient that you forget them and now demand proof, I'm not pandering to this BS. Google is your friend, if you're having selective memory issues.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Mick

And how did we get to know about the Statistics Regulator calling out Boris?

The letter being shared out to the MSM, Boris share this letter with the Press, I think not.

These were the lies that were said, how convenient that you forget them and now demand proof, I'm not pandering to this BS. Google is your friend, if you're having selective memory issues.

The Statistics Regulator put the letter on its website after trying to resolve the matter privately. It was up to anyone - be it a UK mainstream newspaper, Russian troll farm or snowflakey millenial website - to reproduce the letter.
Where have I said I have forgotten the statements? I'm just trying to facilitate a resolution of your request to Maggie, my apologies for trying to be helpful. But if you are making statements you should be able to back them up.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Mick

And how did we get to know about the Statistics Regulator calling out Boris?

The letter being shared out to the MSM, Boris share this letter with the Press, I think not.



These were the lies that were said, how convenient that you forget them and now demand proof, I'm not pandering to this BS. Google is your friend, if you're having selective memory issues.

Luckily a lot of the project fear garbage and comments by those who claimed it was accurate is here for all to see in previous incarnations of this thread.

It's as convenient to try to deny all that as it is to claim that there ever was a policy, promise or pledge to spend £350m pw extra on the NHS after Brexit. It's the same old garbage from the usual suspects who're as long on ridiculous claims as they are short on answers to legitimate questions.

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by Mick

And how many "Remain" votes were hoodwinked by Remain camp lies and deceit?

Not as many, 70% weren't taken in by Gideon' s lies, not that it matters, the other side doing it is a poor excuse and a weak attempt at deflecting blame for your (their) actions

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

Not as many, 70% weren't taken in by Gideon' s lies, not that it matters, the other side doing it is a poor excuse and a weak attempt at deflecting blame for your (their) actions

I find it laughable that you consider me, pointing out that there was a lot of influential lying on the Remain side, probably just as much as the leave side, a weak attempt at deflecting blame, when I am actually blaming BOTH sides.

If both sides were on an aggressive tactical influential campaign, that meant they had to lie to garner votes, both were just as guilty, or is it in your case, that because the wrong side won, that the leave side is more guilty than the remain side for lying ?

Of course, silly me.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Mick

I find it laughable that you consider me, pointing out that there was a lot of influential lying on the Remain side, probably just as much as the leave side, a weak attempt at deflecting blame, when I am actually blaming BOTH sides.

If both sides were on an aggressive tactical influential campaign, that meant they had to lie to garner votes, both were just as guilty, or is it in your case, that because the wrong side won, that the leave side is more guilty than the remain side for lying ?

Of course, silly me.

Look Mick, just get it straight. Only the Brexit campaign told porkies and it was only those who voted to leave who were unduly influenced, confused, mistaken or just misled by anything. It just didn't happen the other way at all so of course the remain side didn't really lose the vote, they was robbed by a slogan on a bus...

[pip08456]

Originally Posted by Maggy J

Well we all know you are omniscient but the vast majority of those voting had no idea what was really at issue and they still don't.

As you refer to the vast majority of voters then one can only assume that the vast majority also includes those that voted remain. Otherwise you would have said the vast majority that voted leave.

There were many remain voters who voted that way due belief in project fear from the Remain camp just as there were those that voted believing in the claims of the Brexit camp.

I believe the vast majority of voters already knew which way they would vote when the referendum was first announced and well before either campaigns started.

[Osem]

It's great to see how united Corbyn's cronies are when it comes to Brexit and how seriously they'll be taking it during their conference:

https://order-order.com/2017/09/24/l...it-conference/

These people are a sad joke.

[pip08456]

Originally Posted by Osem

It's great to see how united Corbyn's cronies are when it comes to Brexit and how seriously they'll be taking it during their conference:

https://order-order.com/2017/09/24/l...it-conference/

These people are a sad joke.

I like the second twitter quote, I already thought Labour were a laughing a laughing stock with a leader who, in all but name, is a hard line communist.

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by Mick

I find it laughable that you consider me, pointing out that there was a lot of influential lying on the Remain side, probably just as much as the leave side, a weak attempt at deflecting blame, when I am actually blaming BOTH sides.

If both sides were on an aggressive tactical influential campaign, that meant they had to lie to garner votes, both were just as guilty, or is it in your case, that because the wrong side won, that the leave side is more guilty than the remain side for lying ?

Of course, silly me.

If only blaming both sides was what you were doing, what you actually doing was excusing them lying based on the fact the other side were doing it to and dismissing how important those lies were to the result, oh yes you've been very even handed with your critique, silly me, actually silly you if you think anyone's buying it

---------- Post added at 20:41 ---------- Previous post was at 20:38 ----------

Originally Posted by pip08456

I like the second twitter quote, I already thought Labour were a laughing a laughing stock with a leader who, an all but name, is a hard line communist.

And if he tells enough lies he might just be our new leader but of course we'll all be fine with that

[pip08456]

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

And if he tells enough lies he might just be our new leader but of course we'll all be fine with that

God forbid, the present set are bad enough!

So 50% of leave voters believed this £350 million claim did they sorry i must have missed being polled on it and so has everyone else I've talked too, i only found out about it off this forum it must have come up after i decided both campaigns were lousy and stopped watching or reading about the referendum campaigns. The £350 million is a misrepresentation no argument about it but it was one claim among many that were out and out misrepresentations and may have contributed to how the referendum went but trying to pretend that only one campaign was affected by misrepresentations is being ridiculous as the remain campaign no doubt influeneced many with it's dire warnings and predictions from people that knew what they were saying was utter rubbish.

This is why we in the UK have ended up with the cretinous politicians that we have because we're to convinced of our own superiority and time and time again we allow them to get us arguing with each other over complete rubbish and we keep ignoring the dwindling talent in our political pool. Single european superstate, creation of a single EU military and immigration were far bigger aspects in many people's vote to leave then one economic claim. In fact it wasn't long ago that remain told us all what a huge deciding factor immigration was and now apparently it was all about the £350 million claim seems like just as they have no idea why a great many voted to remain they don't have a clue why so many voted to leave highlighting in itself why so many did vote to leave.

Just for the record Boris Johnson has been completely exposed as a lying hypocrite that has no limits in his desire to gain leadership of the tories and his becoming PM would be just as disastrous as Corbyn, the joke of course is we might end up with that very choice.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by RizzyKing

Just for the record Boris Johnson has been completely exposed as a lying hypocrite that has no limits in his desire to gain leadership of the tories and his becoming PM would be just as disastrous as Corbyn, the joke of course is we might end up with that very choice.

That's a really interesting choice, I reckon Johnson would be the more competent of the two as he has bags more experience.