Huge fire at West London tower block

[denphone]

Originally Posted by Paul M

They are making completely unreasonable demands.

No one is going to give them answers "Now", and what do they even mean by "Justice" ?

The investigations have barely begun.

Its going to be a fair while before any proper answers can be given as we know.

[adzii_nufc]

In an absolutely monumental shock move... A wild Lily Allen has appeared

Again. I hear the questions, we see the questions, we all do. As already stated I just don't see how they expect this to be achieved of their timescale of 'now'

It can't so prepare for a witch hunt.

As earlier though I'm struggling to comprehend the idea of those few that thought the best place for anti-tory and pro Corbyn propaganda was at a protest following the events of a tragedy.

The protesting obviously won't help but you're essentially asking people to trust the system and processes that have so obviously failed them badly. They repeatedly asked for help from the authorities only to rebuffed time and time again and when what they so feared occurred and took so many lives they're now being told by the same people to wait until they've finished investigating.

It's not surprising they're not satisfied with that. Especially when emotions are running so raw. I can't imagine what it must feel like to be them right now so I wouldn't rush to judgement.

It's much easier to understand the importance of a calm and detailed investigation if you're detached from the event.

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by Stuart

I would guess it's due to ease of evacuation. A building that is 100 m wide by 10 m high * 10 m deep will have more room external fire exits than a building that is 10 m wide * 10 m deep * 100 m high.

The actual figure of 22m probably means nothing, and was likely only chosen because they had to set a limit purely so they could enforce it.

Concerns that the panels could exacerbate the spread of fires led authorities to allow them only on buildings that can be reached by the fire brigade using fully-extended ladders from the ground.

A 22m building would still have been destroyed in this manner. 6/7/8 floors would still be affected. The restriction was not connected to any flammability or otherwise. If it was, it would've been banned for all buildings.

[Taf]

A TV report has shown that the socio-political agitators have set up shop.... there will be violence soon. But against whom?

---------- Post added at 19:59 ---------- Previous post was at 19:53 ----------

The biggest problem we had with fire safety in our 11th floor flat was lack of water pressure for the fire brigade to use. The water main to the building (and fire hydrants) was found to be restricted so not more than a single hose could be run through the pumps.

The dry riser was condemned due to multiple leaks, and was replaced by a single small bore hosereel on every landing. But when the hoses were replaced, they were too short to reach the doorways of the furthest rooms. And the hoses were fed from a pressurised tank on the ground floor, the electricity supply to it constantly tripped, and would be off as soon as the building fire switch was operated.

An idea to change the water tank to an unpressurised one on the roof fed from a ground floor pump was passed from office to office until the idea faded away.

Originally Posted by Damien

The protesting obviously won't help but you're essentially asking people to trust the system and processes that have so obviously failed them badly. They repeatedly asked for help from the authorities only to rebuffed time and time again and when what they so feared occurred and took so many lives they're now being told by the same people to wait until they've finished investigating.

It's not surprising they're not satisfied with that. Especially when emotions are running so raw. I can't imagine what it must feel like to be them right now so I wouldn't rush to judgement.

It's much easier to understand the importance of a calm and detailed investigation if you're detached from the event.

[heero_yuy]

Perhaps the Corbynista protesters should ask themselves how many Labour run councils have installed this same cladding on their tower blocks?

IMHO this is a systemic failure, not a political one.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by heero_yuy

Perhaps the Corbynista protesters should ask themselves how many Labour run councils have installed this same cladding on their tower blocks?

IMHO this is a systemic failure, not a political one.

Yes, that'd be interesting wouldn't it. I wonder how many have insisted that sprinklers be fitted too? The rules don't insist on it but if there's been so much concern and it's only the Tories who haven't been listening to that then I'm sure Labour run councils will have acted to make these death trap buildings safe. If it's truly a question of only Labour cares about social housing and the Conservatives don't there'll be the evidence to back that up and I'm sure Corbyn will be quick to tell us how his party have been doing it so much better.

Sadly, this is another example of the sort of tragedy which happens from time to time highlighting shortcomings in procedures, regulations etc. and sometimes what amounts to criminal negligence. The inquiry into this will answer those questions. To try to turn this into a rich v. poor argument is pathetic but it's typical lefty tactics that we've seen all too often before.

Originally Posted by heero_yuy

Perhaps the Corbynista protesters should ask themselves how many Labour run councils have installed this same cladding on their tower blocks?

IMHO this is a systemic failure, not a political one.

Spot on. There was protesters yesterday in London, not even connected with the tower fire, yet they tagged along with the rest of the tower residents, using their tragedy to further their disagreement with the election results.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Mick

Spot on. There was protesters yesterday in London, not even connected with the tower fire, yet they tagged along with the rest of the tower residents, using their tragedy to further their disagreement with the election results.

Yup. Those of us who weren't born yesterday and don't rely on rose tinted social media for our diet of news will know that perfectly well. It's a shame that more people don't wake up to who these people are and what they represent.

[RichardCoulter]

I've seen a report that suggests that a lot of the residents were asylum seekers. We keep being told that these people don't get preferential treatment over UK born people.

So how is it that London born people are being forced out of London?

I have sympathy for everyone involved, but am miffed that asylum seekers have been housed, may be put into quality hotels at our expense and have been promised another home in London.

Meanwhile, throughout all this, London born residents are sleeping rough or have been forced out of London altogether...

[denphone]

That is a debate for another thread as its certainly not suitable for this thread IMO.

[peanut]

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

I've seen a report that suggests that a lot of the residents were asylum seekers. We keep being told that these people don't get preferential treatment over UK born people.

So how is it that London born people are being forced out of London?

I have sympathy for everyone involved, but am miffed that asylum seekers have been housed, may be put into quality hotels at our expense and have been promised another home in London.

Meanwhile, throughout all this, London born residents are sleeping rough or have been forced out of London altogether...

I'm shocked that rent can be up to around £2000 a month in those towers, and they class that the poor area? How anyone can afford that I'll never know.

[Taf]

Originally Posted by peanut

I'm shocked that rent can be up to around £2000 a month in those towers, and they class that the poor area? How anyone can afford that I'll never know.

HOUSING BENEFIT.

[peanut]

Originally Posted by Taf

HOUSING BENEFIT.

Obliviously, but the benefit cap for London is £23,000.

At least 58 are now presumed dead.