Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !

Originally Posted by ianch99

'Let that sink in"? Don't be so pompous. No one really cares how you voted apart from you but you seem to think we all need to be told over and over again with some cool millennial hash tag (as if this it make it more worthy a statement)

Don't be so obnoxious...

I won't be told by anybody, that brexiteers are becoming desperate, because this one isn't, because I do not believe we will at all be in a mess, and yes, I repeat the hashtags because i'm sick of the daily whinging from some of the hard-line remainers, i.e those who cannot see, or choose not to, past their own noses and full of complete doom and gloom.

I am fully optimistic, unlike yourself, that we do not need to be with a corrupt entity, like the failing EU, which actually handicaps us when it comes to trade with the rest of the world!

Originally Posted by ianch99

What people care about is the future of this country and the wellbeing of their children who are being dragged out of a future they were more than happy with into one which holds, at best, a promise of uncertainly with all that comes with that, and at worse, a significantly poorer lifestyle.

It will not be a significantly poorer lifestyle at all, more doom and gloom BS.

If they were so happy as you say, why did these 'young' adults not vote for the Liberal Democrats in the election just gone?

Why the hell did they not vote for a party which was promising another vote on the EU membership ?

But hang on, let's keep having a referendum until you get the result you want.

Why did over 80% of the electorate and yes, many of the young, opt for parties that were committed to Brexit in the general election just gone ?

And how dare you, I and I am sure, 17.4 million other people, care for the future of this country, a great deal, we have been shafted for the last 40+ years, by corrupt politicians in Brussels, but hey, not for much longer.

Originally Posted by ianch99

Still, hey, it is not what the young think or want, it is the older generation that matters .. yes, the one that won't be around when this mess has played out.

Still, hey, rubbish.

For the last 40+ years, we have already been in a bloody mess, we will be getting out of one for sure.

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by Mick

We won't be constricted by EU rules when it comes to trade with non-EU countries and tariff-free access to fast growing, protected markets of Asia, Africa and South America would be worthwhile.

As of right now, EU membership prevents us negotiating free trade deals and the EU has negotiated, so few deals for us, for example, none at all with the likes of China, India, Australia, Brazil. (And these are screaming to trade with us once we leave the EU).

As for the Single Market, every country has access to the Single Market, with or without tariffs.

If we left the EU with no trade deal, our exports would face EU tariffs averaging just 2.4%.

The other beauty is, we can retain free trade with the EU without paying our current entry fee which costs more than the tariffs we avoid. To put it another way, our net contribution to the EU budget is equivalent to a 7% tariff. Paying 7% to avoid 2.4% costs, is a total con!

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

The EU is the most successful negotiator of trade deals in the world so quite how we can do better on our own I'm not sure.
But the main issue for the UK is that we sell services (80% of our exports) and these tend to fall outside free trade deals. That's why UK banks are busy moving staff to the EU.
Where do you get your tariff calculations from Mick? The EU costs include regulation costs that need to be covered whether done locally in the UK or centrally as part of the EU.

Took the words out of my mouth re trade deals and service sector and doesn't really answer my question about what we will sell them that we don't now. Besides which it's not like US haven't got a proven track of bullying smaller partners in trade deals, they must be rubbing their hands together at the prospect.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

Took the words out of my mouth re trade deals and service sector and doesn't really answer my question about what we will sell them that we don't now. Besides which it's not like US haven't got a proven track of bullying smaller partners in trade deals, they must be rubbing their hands together at the prospect.

Really? Is that why it took seven years to negotiate a trade deal with Canada and after a full ten years, the US trade deal still hasn't been signed?

Do you guys not understand the dreadful organisation that is the EU and the fact that 90% of future growth over the next two decades will be outside of the EU?

The EU is a lot smaller than the whole world, and the rest of the world is eager to embrace new trade deals, unlike the stagnant and slowly dying EU monolith.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Mick

For the last 40 years, we have already been in a bloody mess, we will be getting out of one for sure.

It's a shame that you can't acknowledge how great Great Britain is and want to risk this. Record living standards, great culture, fantastic 2012 Olympics.
The country's not perfect and I'll be the first to admit this. But it's scarcely a mess. Just look at cities like Liverpool and Manchester and how they've improved since the 1980s. Why risk dragging us back to those dark days?

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

It's a shame that you can't acknowledge how great Great Britain is and want to risk this. Record living standards, great culture, fantastic 2012 Olympics.
The country's not perfect and I'll be the first to admit this. But it's scarcely a mess. Just look at cities like Liverpool and Manchester and how they've improved since the 1980s. Why risk dragging us back to those dark days?

None of these are down to the EU, Andrew.

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

None of these are down to the EU, Andrew.

Took the words, right out of my typing.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Really? Is that why it took seven years to negotiate a trade deal with Canada and after a full ten years, the US trade deal still hasn't been signed?

Do you guys not understand the dreadful organisation that is the EU and the fact that 90% of future growth over the next two decades will be outside of the EU?

The EU is a lot smaller than the whole world, and the rest of the world is eager to embrace new trade deals, unlike the stagnant and slowly dying EU monolith.

First paragraph:
Trade deals take a long time. Thre fact that the EU has signed many more than any other trading bloc shows it's rather good at it. In fact, a lot of the negotiators are British and have done a cracking job for the UK. Thanks, guys.

Second paragraph:
Staying in the EU is the best bet for trade deals and Germany has no problem exporting as part of the EU. Have you heard of divide and conquer? Have you ever negotiated as a small organisation and then as a large one and got a better deal as a small organisation? I certainly haven't.
But as discussed earlier, trade deals as they don't cover services as much as you would like the debate to be about this. We export services and these generally fall outside trade deals

Third paragraph
Finally, desperate and emotional tosh like stagnant and dying monolith don't cut it with those of in the real world. The EU's outperforming us at the moment and will continue to grow. It's a great market for services and it's on our doorstep. I hope for our children's future we don't lose that market.

---------- Post added at 20:19 ---------- Previous post was at 20:14 ----------

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

None of these are down to the EU, Andrew.

The country is great despite Mick taking a swipe at it. I've read quite a lot that shows how living standards have improved since we joined the EU enabling us to afford inner city regeneration and the Olympics. The European City of Culture award was a turning point for Liverpool and that's certainly an EU award.

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Firstly, I've never claimed they are down to the EU. I've just said that the country is great despite Mick taking a swipe at it.
All that being said, I've read quite a lot to suggest that living standards have improved since we joined the EU.

Nice distortion of what I said there.

I have never took a swipe at any of the achievements of this country, but we certainly have made many of them without the need of the EU. Please don't twist my posts Andrew.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Mick

Nice distortion of what I said there.

I have never took a swipe at any of the achievements of this country, but we certainly have made many of them without the need of the EU. Please don't twist my posts Andrew.

Sorry. I genuinely aim not to distort anyone's words and I take you at your word on this. It's just that when you say we've "been in a bloody mess" to my mind it belittles all the fantastic things the country has done.
As a proud patriotic Brit, perhaps I'm being over-sensitive.

[passingbat]

Originally Posted by ianch99

being dragged out of a future they were more than happy with into one which holds, at best, a promise of uncertainly with all that comes with that, and at worse, a significantly poorer lifestyle.

So, by that premise, shouldn't remain have Won?

[1andrew1]

Will be interesting to see more of the UK's strategy unveiled over the next week or so, particularly now she has apparently canned the silly no-deal approach.

Financial Times Key parts of the UK’s Brexit negotiating strategy are set to be revealed over the coming 10 days as Theresa May, the prime minister, returns from holiday and launches a series of critical position papers.
The papers’ publication will start to flesh out how far the UK government’s position has shifted from the stance Mrs May set out in January, in a speech at Lancaster House, which raised the possibility that the UK would rather leave the EU with no deal than a bad deal.
But Mrs May will return to a divided cabinet, with senior ministers having taken advantage of her three-week absence to launch very public challenges.

Google "Crucial Brexit week looms as May returns from holiday" or https://www.ft.com/content/518a3506-...bc928?mhq5j=e1

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by passingbat

So, by that premise, shouldn't remain have Won?

No. The younger voters were not as motivated to vote as the older ones were. They contributed to their own downfall so to speak.

It is clear that the vast majority of younger voters did not want to leave the EU but they did not, for some perverse reason, express those wishes at the ballot box.

---------- Post added at 12:28 ---------- Previous post was at 12:14 ----------

Originally Posted by Mick

Don't be so obnoxious...

I won't be told by anybody, that brexiteers are becoming desperate, because this one isn't, because I do not believe we will at all be in a mess, and yes, I repeat the hashtags because i'm sick of the daily whinging from some of the hard-line remainers, i.e those who cannot see, or choose not to, past their own noses and full of complete doom and gloom.

I am fully optimistic, unlike yourself, that we do not need to be with a corrupt entity, like the failing EU, which actually handicaps us when it comes to trade with the rest of the world!



It will not be a significantly poorer lifestyle at all, more doom and gloom BS.

If they were so happy as you say, why did these 'young' adults not vote for the Liberal Democrats in the election just gone?

Why the hell did they not vote for a party which was promising another vote on the EU membership ?

But hang on, let's keep having a referendum until you get the result you want.

Why did over 80% of the electorate and yes, many of the young, opt for parties that were committed to Brexit in the general election just gone ?

And how dare you, I and I am sure, 17.4 million other people, care for the future of this country, a great deal, we have been shafted for the last 40+ years, by corrupt politicians in Brussels, but hey, not for much longer.



Still, hey, rubbish.

For the last 40+ years, we have already been in a bloody mess, we will be getting out of one for sure.

If you keep telling us on a daily basis how you voted (with or without #hashtags) then we have a duty to remind you that you are mistaken.

Your debating style, lacing your replies with hyperbole:

we have been shafted for the last 40+ years

only serves to distract from the points you are trying to make.

[Julian]

Originally Posted by ianch99

No. The younger voters were not as motivated to vote as the older ones were. They contributed to their own downfall so to speak.

It is clear that the vast majority of younger voters did not want to leave the EU but they did not, for some perverse reason, express those wishes at the ballot box.

And yet, even armed with two votes each at the last GE, they still failed to vote either time for a party who could have reversed that decision.

Originally Posted by ianch99

No. The younger voters were not as motivated to vote as the older ones were. They contributed to their own downfall so to speak.

It is clear that the vast majority of younger voters did not want to leave the EU but they did not, for some perverse reason, express those wishes at the ballot box.

---------- Post added at 12:28 ---------- Previous post was at 12:14 ----------



If you keep telling us on a daily basis how you voted (with or without #hashtags) then we have a duty to remind you that you are mistaken.

Your debating style, lacing your replies with hyperbole:



only serves to distract from the points you are trying to make.

I'm not mistaken, it's very arrogant to assume you're correcting a mistake, you say I'm making, and you have the gall to criticise my debating style. We're better out and I will keep on saying it.

[passingbat]

Originally Posted by ianch99

No. The younger voters were not as motivated to vote as the older ones were. They contributed to their own downfall so to speak.

It is clear that the vast majority of younger voters did not want to leave the EU but they did not, for some perverse reason, express those wishes at the ballot box.
.

It they're not interested in voting, they're not interested enough to do research, and therefore, not capable of making an informed vote. Opinions solely based on roaming charges don't count