8 Dead and 48 Injured in London Bridge Terror Attack

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by Hugh

11 killed https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...nix/313673001/

2 killed, 8 wounded https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ing/101418884/

8 dead http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/0...165659989.html

Still no actions by GROUPS other than gang related. The 2 other cases have violent trigger incidents.

Last month Saucedo was arrested and held on a $750,000 bond on suspicion of murdering 61-year-old Raul Romero in August 2015. Romero had been dating Saucedo's mother at the time of his death.

in what police believe was a gang-retaliation hit targeting a memorial for a man who had been killed earlier in the day.

A man who apparently got into a dispute with his wife and in-laws

Nothing comparable.

[ianch99]

In like of these recent evenst, this looks very disturbing:

'Sensitive' UK terror funding inquiry may never be published

In his letter to May, Brake wrote: “As home secretary at the time, your department was one of those leading on the report. Eighteen months later, and following two horrific terrorist attacks by British-born citizens, that report still remains incomplete and unpublished.

“It is no secret that Saudi Arabia in particular provides funding to hundreds of mosques in the UK, espousing a very hardline Wahhabist interpretation of Islam. It is often in these institutions that British extremism takes root.”

The contents of the report may prove politically as well as legally sensitive. Saudi Arabia, which has been a funding source for fundamentalist Islamist preachers and mosques, was visited by May earlier this year.

Last December, a leaked report from Germany’s federal intelligence service accused several Gulf groups of funding religious schools and radical Salafist preachers in mosques, calling it “a long-term strategy of influence”.

This is where we need the focus: stop the Saudi funding on UK mosques so we stop them spreading their pernicious and medieval world view ..

That pernicious view takes hold because the religion is so easy to misrepresent and a growing number of muslims here support a more radical style of islam the money may make things easier but getting rid of the money will at best slow things down but will not resolve the problem.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by nomadking

Who just happen to be Muslims.

How many individuals or especially groups of non-Muslims act in that way?

They may claim to be Muslims, but true Muslims would not behave like these savages did. They are simply using Islam as an 'excuse' for their behaviour, not that it is. Islam is a peaceful religion.

Originally Posted by nomadking

Still no actions by GROUPS other than gang related. The 2 other cases have violent trigger incidents.
Nothing comparable.

You asked

Originally Posted by nomadking

Who just happen to be Muslims.

How many individuals or especially groups of non-Muslims act in that way?

I apologise if the facts don't agree with your viewpoint...

http://www.gunviolencearchive.org/reports/mass-shooting

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by RizzyKing

That pernicious view takes hold because the religion is so easy to misrepresent and a growing number of muslims here support a more radical style of islam the money may make things easier but getting rid of the money will at best slow things down but will not resolve the problem.

I agree. This is a long and drawn out process but at the heart of this radicalisation are the evil teachers. They who prey on the simple minded and impressionable. Let's start with them ..

Theresa may talked about eliminating the safe spaces that allow radicalisation of our youth and while the internet is certainly one of them the biggest safe space in the UK are the mosques. The imans don't stop the radicals and they don't shut them down once they start the radicalisation process and that's one of the biggest problems as places of worship have traditionally been places we do not conduct surveillance. There needs to be a massive change in approach and attitude in relation to islam in the UK as right now it's a fertile breeding ground with increasing numbers of radicals and a non radical section that rarely does anything practical to counter the radicals preferring to keep silent and in some cases adopting a harder view of islam.

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by Hugh

You asked I apologise if the facts don't meet agree with your viewpoint...

http://www.gunviolencearchive.org/reports/mass-shooting

You are correct here up to a point. By saying that these acts are just comparable to other non-Islamist crimes can give credence to the position that Islam is no different to the other world religions and as such, does not have a specific issue re: religious terrorism.

This is patently not the case. Islamic terrorism is a serious dilemma that the Muslim community has to grapple with.

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by RizzyKing

Theresa may talked about eliminating the safe spaces that allow radicalisation of our youth and while the internet is certainly one of them the biggest safe space in the UK are the mosques. The imans don't stop the radicals and they don't shut them down once they start the radicalisation process and that's one of the biggest problems as places of worship have traditionally been places we do not conduct surveillance. There needs to be a massive change in approach and attitude in relation to islam in the UK as right now it's a fertile breeding ground with increasing numbers of radicals and a non radical section that rarely does anything practical to counter the radicals preferring to keep silent and in some cases adopting a harder view of islam.

I totally agree and the point I was making earlier (obviously badly) that the cuts in community policing only goes to weaken our ability to detect and suppress these "breeding grounds" of Islamic jihadism.

[RichardCoulter]

Indeed. I am very happy to pay more tax to reverse the cuts to policing, stop hospitals closing etc.

That's after the likes of Atos, Capita etc who don't pay any tax at all, despite taking millions from the British taxpayer.

Some have called for internment, whilst I'm tempted to agree (especially if this turns out to be a fortnightly occurrence), ISTR that this made things worse in Northern Ireland (could be wrong though).

Can anyone remember what happened when it was tried in NI, so that we can compare?

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by Hugh

You asked I apologise if the facts don't agree with your viewpoint...

http://www.gunviolencearchive.org/reports/mass-shooting

How many involved groups but were not gang related? How many attacks by individuals were non-specific type of targets often arising about a specific disagreement?

How many not carried out by Muslims, were planned in advance and serving a common purpose?

[Ramrod]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Islam is a peaceful religion.

Is it? Tell me, in your opinion, would it be a bad idea for me to post a cartoon of mohammed on FB? If so, why?

[Arthurgray50@blu]

I don't like to say this. But we should take the same stance as Donald Trump. We have to take an stand bar on who comes into the UK.

And l totally blame ALL politicians, for allowing this to happen. Over the past ten years, we have had figures of 100.000 migrants coming into the UK, either through ships, dingy Lorries anything. And the total border control guards. They have been cut drastically.

We have stupid Theresa May saying today, that we have to change tactics against terrorists. How can you, they are already here now. Thanks to the severe cuts that have been brought. I work with Law enforcement. And officers from ALL over London were drafted into area last night. And remember that this is the SECOND attack, in THREE areas of London.

Today, silly Kay Burley from Sky spoke to a Retired Fed rep, and asked stupid questions about the officers that were there. The reps reply was that these officers had there rest days, annual leave cancelled due to this. And some of them had already completed the normal shift.

The overstretched emergency services deserve our full support, in there actions last night

And remember, EVERY service last night has had severe cut to it. And the Tories are going to cut the police by ANOTHER 4.000 pc's by 2020

IF, we get hit by another act of terrorism attack. Then, l don't like to say it. They could strike in more than ONE CITY at the same time.

What we have to do is very simply.
1) close all borders to ALL countries - UNTIL they go through thorough checks.

2) IF, you have committed a crime in another country, you will NOT BE ALLOWED INTO THIS COUNTRY

3) IF you commit a crime in this Country, you get sent straight back to your country. NO MATTER WHAT.

4) we hear sob stories that that, whether its a man or woman, or children. Will be tortured in that country. Doesn't matter, you go back.

We have to protect our own citizens, then so be it.

This anger some members. But l am totally fed up with do gooders, who say out them before a court.

You tell that to the people that have lost family members.

I don't mind paying an extra 1 or 2p in tax if we can recruit more emergency staff. For too long ANY government that is in power that states we cannot afford it. Well stop overseas aid. That will do the job

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu

I don't like to say this. But we should take the same stance as Donald Trump. We have to take an stand bar on who comes into the UK.

And l totally blame ALL politicians, for allowing this to happen. Over the past ten years, we have had figures of 100.000 migrants coming into the UK, either through ships, dingy Lorries anything. And the total border control guards. They have been cut drastically.

We have stupid Theresa May saying today, that we have to change tactics against terrorists. How can you, they are already here now. Thanks to the severe cuts that have been brought. I work with Law enforcement. And officers from ALL over London were drafted into area last night. And remember that this is the SECOND attack, in THREE areas of London.

Today, silly Kay Burley from Sky spoke to a Retired Fed rep, and asked stupid questions about the officers that were there. The reps reply was that these officers had there rest days, annual leave cancelled due to this. And some of them had already completed the normal shift.

The overstretched emergency services deserve our full support, in there actions last night

And remember, EVERY service last night has had severe cut to it. And the Tories are going to cut the police by ANOTHER 4.000 pc's by 2020

IF, we get hit by another act of terrorism attack. Then, l don't like to say it. They could strike in more than ONE CITY at the same time.

What we have to do is very simply.
1) close all borders to ALL countries - UNTIL they go through thorough checks.

2) IF, you have committed a crime in another country, you will NOT BE ALLOWED INTO THIS COUNTRY

3) IF you commit a crime in this Country, you get sent straight back to your country. NO MATTER WHAT.

4) we hear sob stories that that, whether its a man or woman, or children. Will be tortured in that country. Doesn't matter, you go back.

We have to protect our own citizens, then so be it.

This anger some members. But l am totally fed up with do gooders, who say out them before a court.

You tell that to the people that have lost family members.

I don't mind paying an extra 1 or 2p in tax if we can recruit more emergency staff. For too long ANY government that is in power that states we cannot afford it. Well stop overseas aid. That will do the job

Arthur, you seem to conclude that these terrorists are all foreign born so we can "ban" them, why is this?

While the attackers maybe home grown the start of the radicalisation process is usually started by visiting imans and elders the old brigade happy to send the young off to die for their cause. Also a lot of the technical attack information and training process comes from visitors, the joke is most of the time we know the wrong ones and let them in anyway because it's become our default response to do nothing that might offend muslims. It's time for us in the UK to do more then talk about our values and the worth of society and country and start showing anyone that wants to come here that they have to deserve a place in our society and that they must adapt and integrate into our society and earn the many benefits of life in the UK.

For too long we have attached little practical value to what we have here and that's made it easier for the cowards to come here.