Post-Brexit Thread - Page 94

Osem · 31-07-2016, 10:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomadking

Where is the evidence that they didn't "get over it" at the time. The EEC was nothing compared to the EU today. That is where the differences arise. How many who voted yes in 1975 had in mind a picture of what the EU is today?

None of us. They didn't want us to either and we've been dragged into it and refused a choice by successive governments ever since. Well until their hand was forced, resulting in liberation day last month that is...

**Maggy** · 31-07-2016, 10:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomadking

Where is the evidence that they didn't "get over it" at the time. The EEC was nothing compared to the EU today. That is where the differences arise. How many who voted yes in 1975 had in mind a picture of what the EU is today?

And who thought in 1975 we would end up with the political and global situation that we have now..hindsight is often used to judge actions of the past.

Osem · 31-07-2016, 10:24

Well I don't know about you but my mates and I spent many an hour contemplating the cold war and nuclear armageddon. The future didn't look all that bright then, in fact it looked MAD...

nomadking · 31-07-2016, 10:29

The point is that it was right and proper to have a referendum now, because the basis of the 1975 one has changed. The 2016 didn't overturn the 1975 one as they were based on different questions.

Big Brian · 31-07-2016, 11:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

I am not demanding a second referendum. I am aware it's not going to happen.

I will remind you that the petition that was submitted was actually produced by someone in favour of Brexit.

People didn't just get a life and get over it after 1975. Don't see why it should be any different in 2016 just because the result went the other way.

No idea what you mean regarding trouble that would happen. We will see I guess.

Funny how people are obsessed with democracy suddenly having just had the least representative election in living memory, having an unelected second chamber still, and in many cases having voted away the most representative election they got to participate in.

Agree with your last paragraph entirely. I've always been in favour of a second elected house and abolishing the Lords. I am also in favour of Proportional Representation when it comes to General Elections As we have a Government 3/4 didn't want it seems the right way to go now.

By trouble, I mean there would be riots by Brexiters if the Government ignored the referendum and didn't invoke Article 50.

Actually most of us did after 1975 but that's history now. I feel vindicated now we have voted to leave as I did in 1975 but there will always be unhappy people.

Petition, I didn't even look at it.

---------- Post added at 11:15 ---------- Previous post was at 11:05 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maggy J

I see it as my fundamental right to be able say I told you so at all and every opportunity..we do still have free speech provided it isn't a hate crime..

Exactly where do we have freedom of speech? I can think of loads of examples where we don't. Oh sure, I can say what I like as long as no one else hears it and takes offence just because I say 'black' instead of referring to the country they come from.

I was told off for using the word ****** and I wasn't even referring to gay people I was referring to the food Brain's ******s.

Sorry not trying to get round the filter. I wasn't aware that word was swearing. It was an example of where we do not have freedom of speech as some think.

There is a lot we can't say for fear of offending someone so I ask again, how do we have freedom of speech? Freedom of speech is a thing of the past. Yes I can say things like F the Queen or the Government but I'm sure if a Polis heard me he'd pull me up for it.

You can't even insult someone now without risking Court Action.

You are very much mistaken if you believe we still have freedom of speech in this country friend. It just isn't as bad as it is in other countries yet.

---------- Post added at 11:22 ---------- Previous post was at 11:15 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maggy J

And who thought in 1975 we would end up with the political and global situation that we have now..hindsight is often used to judge actions of the past.

I did. That's why I voted against in 1975. Anyone should have realised it wouldn't stop just at an economic community. I am still amazed to this day we voted 2 to 1 to stay in.

31-07-2016, 14:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Brian

I am still amazed to this day we voted 2 to 1 to stay in.

I'm not ,we were totally reliant on what the government told us or we read in the papers there was no internet or rolling news service .In all honesty alarm bells should have been ringing when France vetoed our joining at the first attempt .If only we had listened to the frogs (never thought i would ever say that

)

**Hugh** · 31-07-2016, 14:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by martyh

I'm not ,we were totally reliant on what the government told us or we read in the papers there was no internet or rolling news service .In all honesty alarm bells should have been ringing when France vetoed our joining at the first attempt .If only we had listened to the frogs (never thought i would ever say that

)

Lucky we had the Daily Express to 'inform' us this time...

http://indy100.independent.co.uk/art...e--bygEsaSHY8b

Quote:

The captions for images 3 (eggs), 5 (jam), 6 (water) & 9 (swedes) were inaccurate. In the case of caption 3 (eggs), the caption claimed that "A dozen eggs: In 2010 the EU said that food could not be sold by number but by weight". In 2010 the European Union was considering legislation governing food labelling. In June 2010 Renata Sommer the MEP responsible for steering the legislation confirmed 'There will be no changes to selling food by numbers". In fact a consumer who purchased eggs in the UK would be able to do so by number. Caption 3 (eggs) was therefore incorrect. Given that 4 of the 11 captions were incorrect this gallery has been deleted.

Ignitionnet · 31-07-2016, 14:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomadking

Where is the evidence that they didn't "get over it" at the time. The EEC was nothing compared to the EU today. That is where the differences arise. How many who voted yes in 1975 had in mind a picture of what the EU is today?

Well, the differences arise in things like that that vote was 67.2% - 32.8%.

The idea that that vote stopped Euroscepticism and that no-one wanted the UK out of the EEC, etc, is absurd.

Such feelings were organised in a more concrete form by 1994 with the formation of the Referendum Party, though it's really not difficult to find people, especially on the fringes of right and left, who wanted the UK out. As a nation we never really embraced membership of the EU and were always somewhat half-hearted with support varying wildly.

As far as circumstances changing, they do that. In the case of our most recent referendum they changed a few hours after the result when those leading the leave campaign realised the country had bought into it and they would actually have to either deliver what they promised or backtrack on it, followed by a bunch of backtracking.

I have no interest in another referendum as a result but no way am I not going to continue making the argument, or pointing out when the BS unravels, on either side of the argument.

---------- Post added at 14:12 ---------- Previous post was at 14:10 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Brian

I feel vindicated now we have voted to leave as I did in 1975 but there will always be unhappy people.

I'm more inclined to actually wait for the fallout in full, and to see the end result, before any feelings of being vindicated come out.

Being on the winning side doesn't mean being on the right one.

---------- Post added at 14:13 ---------- Previous post was at 14:12 ----------

In other news Theresa May's cunning appointments to her cabinet are looking smarter and smarter.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7163996.html

Guess who has to deal with the farmers and rural communities? One Andrea Leadsom.

ianch99 · 31-07-2016, 14:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

You seem to have a sense of humour blind spot on this issue going by missing the satire.

I wish you'd accept that people are allowed to be unhappy with the result and, in a democracy, are under no obligation to accept it but we can't have everything. I'm with Ian Hislop on this one I'm afraid and looking at my LinkedIn and social media I'd like to think I have a life.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uyyOyoeqKfM

If you want an echo chamber where everyone is delighted with the referendum result and consider everything suggesting any negative connotations to the result as being propaganda there are plenty of them around.

Yours,

A Whinging Metropolitan Loser

Confused ... I thought you supported the Leave campaign? So what is there to be unhappy about? Serious question BTW ..

Ignitionnet · 31-07-2016, 14:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by ianch99

Confused ... I thought you supported the Leave campaign? So what is there to be unhappy about? Serious question BTW ..

I did pretty much up until the day of the vote when I finally realised I'd bought into a bunch of BS.

Doubts had been creeping in for a while to be honest, but it takes a long time to reverse a couple of decades of holding a particular position. I was brought up to consider the EU a bad thing.

As I wrote in a local paper that I'd previously written a pro-Brexit piece for before, I was wrong.

One of the things I'm actually looking forward to as a result of our leaving the EU, and that is far more likely than our staying in, is who the government are going to blame for their shortcomings when they can't blame the EU anymore.

EDIT: I wouldn't be surprised if on some level I'm trying to make amends with myself for getting it so wrong previously. While many get more socially conservative as they get older I've been going the other way, getting more socially liberal while staying, kinda, economically centrist.

---------- Post added at 14:25 ---------- Previous post was at 14:21 ----------

This is interesting from the Political Compass.

https://www.politicalcompass.org/uk_eu_referendum2016

Big Brian · 31-07-2016, 15:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by ianch99

Confused ... I thought you supported the Leave campaign? So what is there to be unhappy about? Serious question BTW ..

I'm not unhappy, I'm delighted. Just a piece of friendly advice.

Ignitionnet · 31-07-2016, 17:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Brian

I'm not unhappy, I'm delighted. Just a piece of friendly advice.

Given he quoted me in said post I suspect that was aimed at me.

Mr K · 31-07-2016, 20:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Osem

Well I don't know about you but my mates and I spent many an hour contemplating the cold war and nuclear armageddon.

Sounds like a fun evening, and fun mates.....

**Hugh** · 31-07-2016, 20:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr K

Sounds like a fun evening, and fun mates.....

Well, when only a couple of miles from multiple Sov tank and Air Regiments, they're fairly hard to ignore....

Ramrod · 31-07-2016, 22:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kursk

It's just the one bloke isn't it?

Yep