Will Scotland Leave the UK?

[Kabaal]

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

Remind me, why do we want them to stay?

"Them".

There's a reason right there. We're a tiny little island yet Salmond's crap still stirs up the us and them nonsense. The sooner people realise that nonsense has no place in the present the better.

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

Remind me, why do we want them to stay?

We don't want 'them' to stay, we want 'us' to stay together...

Originally Posted by Kabaal

"Them".

There's a reason right there. We're a tiny little island yet Salmond's crap still stirs up the us and them nonsense. The sooner people realise that nonsense has no place in the present the better.

Exactly.

I was born and raised in Scotland, and have lived in England for thirty-odd years (after a spell in the forces); I have one brother who lives in England, another who lives in Jersey, and a brother and sister who live in Glasgow (and all of my siblings have families, some of whom live inside, and some who live outside, Scotland).

There is no them/us, there is only us - anything else is being used to divide us, to raise emotions (mostly negative) for other's political benefit - the old truism of "it's easier to find a scapegoat for your problems than to solve them" is being used here.

I am not keen on having to go through border controls to visit my parents' graves in St Conval's Cemetery.....

[TheDaddy]

Yes them, no reason at all by the sound of it

Turns out Herman von Rumpy-Pumpy agrees with Barrosso: Scottish EU accession will be difficult, if not impossible:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...00-a-year.html

[richard s]

Well said Kabaal and Hugh... What does A Salmon and N Sturgeon really hope for, what is there to gain or benefit!!!

Would he be called King Salmon the First, President Salmon or Prime Minister Salmon.

Just for instance the vote was yes and a few years down the line everything went tits up, who would they turn to for help.

I hate Alex Salmond. He's put me on the same side of a debate as Manuel Barrosso and Herman Von Rumpuy.

[Derek]

Is he now the most bullied person in the world?

Manuel, George, Ed, Danny, Sir Nicholas and now Herman have all put the boot in.

Poor Aleck. They took his dinner money and his library tickets.

[Derek]

Poor Eck. Even his past comments are coming back to bully him.

[Chad]

Originally Posted by Derek

Poor Eck. Even his past comments are coming back to bully him.

Remember Comical Ali?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9aW1atFLMM

His grandiose and grossly unrealistic propaganda broadcasts before and during the war were met with widespread derision and amusement.

One Telegraph reader pointed out that Alex Salmond is quick becoming the Scottish version. "Comical Ali Salmond".

[Osem]

Even David Bowie's 'bullying' Salmond's Tartan Twits now:

http://www.theguardian.com/music/201...h-independence

[zaax]

If Scotland goes independant, it won't get in to the EU as Spain won't let it in because of their Basque independence problem*, it will be full bore passport and Customs controls at Scotland's EU border - there are only a dozen crossing so it won't be that difficult to close the border to vehicles and the A1 already has the area set aside for a border post.

If a Scottish person wants to work in the rest of the EU they will have to apply for a work Visa like the rest of the world.

* if Scotland goes independent the Spanish Basque region will want Independence as well (as well as other parts of other eu contries)

Originally Posted by Damien

It will be interesting to see how this translates to polling once we've had a few weeks. I don't believe it will lead to a temporary Yes bounce. I think we might see a slight uptick in Nos with Yes remaining the same. However that No vote will become a lot more solid and less likely to budge.

There has been a 'yes' bounce.

A small one, mind you, but nonetheless.

This of course is exactly what the No campaign expected would happen, which is why they have started getting the hard messages out now, 7 months ahead of the vote, rather than in the last few days.

Salmond is being played off the field by experts and he doesn't even realise it. In playing the man, not the ball, he has lost an opportunity to counter the argument about the pound. He has gone for populism (Bullies!) and denial, which is a great rabble rouser, but in six months time the facts about the pound and the EU will still be on the table and Salmond's ammunition has already gone.

And the longer he sticks to his current line of denial, the more entrenched will become the idea that he and his plan can't be trusted.

Originally Posted by Chris

There has been a 'yes' bounce.

A small one, mind you, but nonetheless.

This of course is exactly what the No campaign expected would happen, which is why they have started getting the hard messages out now, 7 months ahead of the vote, rather than in the last few days.

Salmond is being played off the field by experts and he doesn't even realise it. In playing the man, not the ball, he has lost an opportunity to counter the argument about the pound. He has gone for populism (Bullies!) and denial, which is a great rabble rouser, but in six months time the facts about the pound and the EU will still be on the table and Salmond's ammunition has already gone.

And the longer he sticks to his current line of denial, the more entrenched will become the idea that he and his plan can't be trusted.

Kind of concerned there is a bounce in Yes to be honest. Can't believe that such obvious nationalist populism resonates better than the practicalities of the economy. It's always been my assumption that most of politicking is a side-show that matters little, bar a minority of ideologues, and the fundamentals of jobs, pensions and mortgages tend to decide elections.

I see what you're saying about this being a temporary boost that will then give way to the practical questions of independence but that polling suggests most Scots believe Westminster is bluffing. That would explain why there hasn't been a boost in the No polling and why they believe that Westminster is 'bulling' Scotland.

It's also quite surprising that, according to the poll, a large number of Scots seem to honestly believe that rUK would be willing to lose some sovereignty over our currency and risk being on the hook for Scottish banks. It's not as if we haven't got an example of us rejecting currency unions before nor have a pretty good example of why a Currency Union without closer political union isn't a good idea.

Again I am not sure they quite understand what they will be voting for in September. That they are voting for Independence and not just a slightly greater degree of freedom from Westminster. They won't get to leave the Union but keep everything they like about it. Get to have a better country but still depend on the rest of the Union for the things it does well.

Salmond really is a snake oil merchant with a brass neck that would make any of the main political parties leaders blush. I quite like the story about him in the Economist: http://www.economist.com/news/leader...ded-submission

ALEX SALMOND’S first foray into politics was in primary school, when he represented the Scottish National Party in mock elections—and won, after pledging to replace his fellow pupils’ daily allowance of milk with ice cream.

Hasn't changed much then. Only this time that ice cream will not only be cheaper, it will be healthier and you can have as much as you like without getting fat. For free.

The polls were carried out in the immediate aftermath of the row blowing up over the pound and Salmond's typically pugilistic response.

It's difficult to get across to someone in England just how loathed the Tories are up here. Yes, they have a core vote of around 16% but outside of that they're about as welcome as bacon butties at a bar mitzvah. Any Tory saying or doing anything with regards to Scotland will immediately elicit a contrary response from a significant section of the Scottish public. This is why Salmond is so desperate to get a TV debate with Cameron, and why Cameron has had the good sense to refuse.

However, Darling (for it is he who is pulling the strings) is playing a blinder. He has got Balls, Alexander and Osborne singing from the same hymn sheet and at a point in the debate which has forced Salmond to expend his ammo far too early. You don't need to worry about the immediate reaction. The Scottish electorate is not stupid and the cold, hard facts about currency, and EU membership will weigh heavily on the debate from now on, with people increasingly dwelling on the message rather than the messenger.

And remember, the only poll that counts is the one where you mark an X in the box. People tend to think much more carefully about the ballot box than an opinion poll.