Hamas Israel War

[1andrew1]

A good article by Guardian columnist Jonathan Freedland, concluding

...What’s more, such a framing brands all Israelis – not just West Bank settlers – as guilty of the sin of colonialism. Perhaps that explains why those letter writers could not full-throatedly condemn the 7 October killing of innocent Israeli civilians. Because they do not see any Israeli, even a child, as wholly innocent.

This is where you wind up when you view this conflict in monochrome, as a clash of right v wrong. Because the late Israeli novelist and peace activist Amos Oz was never wiser than when he described the Israel/Palestine conflict as something infinitely more tragic: a clash of right v right. Two peoples with deep wounds, howling with grief, fated to share the same small piece of land.

So, this is not a football game. It has no need for spectators who root for one team against the other, goading their chosen side to go to ever further extremes. This is not a game, for one grimly obvious reason. There are no winners – only never-ending loss.

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...onflict-horror

[Ms NTL]

Originally Posted by Chris

Do you mind my asking … who is it you’re acquainted with that’s sending you this stuff? Are these genuine friends, business acquaintances, or mailing list emails you’re getting?

Most of it, is anonymous. I worked in Haifa and Tel Aviv (few weeks every year). Colleagues from USA, Canada, Arab countries, Israel, pressure me to make a statement under my work's name ("platform"), which I am not allowed to do ("inappropriate behaviour") or willing to do.

I do not answer the phone, because journalists try to trick you on saying something stupid and report it or ....I will tell them to f-off, as I have a short fuse and then report it.

The last purple sentence is from one of my students in London ...

Originally Posted by Ms NTL

Most of it, is anonymous. I worked in Haifa and Tel Aviv (few weeks every year). Colleagues from USA, Canada, Arab countries, Israel, pressure me to make a statement under my work's name ("platform"), which I am not allowed to do ("inappropriate behaviour") or willing to do.

I do not answer the phone, because journalists try to trick you on saying something stupid and report it or ....I will tell them to f-off, as I have a short fuse and then report it.

The last purple sentence is from one of my students in London ...

This is awful, so sorry to hear this.

[Ms NTL]

https://www.skysports.com/football/n...ial-media-post

I have been given prepared text to reply to emails. If I am in difficulty (the prepared text does not fit as reply), then somebody will prepare something new for me....

I guess ChatGPT prepared....

I feel so free....

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Ms NTL

I feel so free....

Well, you’re free to move to any Islamic country, if you consider this country not free enough.

Let me know how you get on.

[Ms NTL]

Originally Posted by Pierre

Well, you’re free to move to any Islamic country, if you consider this country not free enough.

Let me know how you get on.

Any suggestions? Red wine is a must. Why Islamic?

[jfman]

The censorship of what is polling as the most popular stance in the UK at the minute, to support a ceasefire, is truly frightening.

No more can we ask how people stood by and let the Holocaust happen. For we are witnessing the playbook before our very eyes. Dehumanising Palestinian life, intimidating anyone who speaks up for them. In time, some of what has been said in the last few weeks will go down horrifically.

By our politicians and in this thread.

At least we can put to bed the claim Israel don’t bomb hospitals. But it’s alright though, “terrorists” use them. And ambulances. And churches. And refugee camps. And civilian areas.

So Israel can destroy Gaza, and push everyone who lives there into Egypt, carrying out ethnic cleansing but it’s fine though, we can trust them to be honest about the evidence.

---------- Post added at 21:55 ---------- Previous post was at 21:47 ----------

Originally Posted by Pierre

If I was Israel, I would completely destroy Gaza, just flatten it.

I know that’s what Hamas want, but i would give it to them in spades.

Give them 24hrs warning, then flatten it.

Aha, it all makes sense now. I’ve enjoyed much of the debate Pierre, but I’ve overlooked this on page 1 which explains your difficulty to move beyond Israel’s claims to, on any human level, sympathise with Palestinians.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Ms NTL

Any suggestions? Red wine is a must.

Iran, enjoy the wine.

Why Islamic?

I’m just surmising you’re getting grief for a pro-Palestinian stance that is impacting your right to free speech. Well I’m sure you’ll get a more sympathetic ear in an Islamic state. Just remember to wear your hijab.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Pierre

Iran, enjoy the wine.

I’m just surmising you’re getting grief for a pro-Palestinian stance that is impacting your right to free speech. Well I’m sure you’ll get a more sympathetic ear in an Islamic state. Just remember to wear your hijab.

She will get a sympathetic ear among the vast majority of people in this country who support a ceasefire. Israel had little sympathy among the population at large to start with, it certainly has less now as it engages in war crimes.

Originally Posted by jfman

Israel had little sympathy among the population at large to start with

On what do you base this exactly ?

and this ;

Originally Posted by jfman

it certainly has less now as it engages in war crimes.

Also, what War Crimes has it been convicted of ?

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by jfman

So Israel can destroy Gaza, and push everyone who lives there into Egypt

Egypt don’t want them, no other Islamic state bordering want them.

carrying out ethnic cleansing but it’s fine though, we can trust them to be honest about the evidence.

Ethnic cleansing…this is from 5 years ago but still very pertinent


https://youtu.be/35eEljsSQfc?si=1DvidO77lkc6sZLp

Aha, it all makes sense now. I’ve enjoyed much of the debate Pierre, but I’ve overlooked this on page 1 which explains your difficulty to move beyond Israel’s claims to, on any human level, sympathise with Palestinians.

I posted that on the day of the atrocities by Hamas, it was an emotional response after watching the initial videos being circulated and the reports coming in, but I don’t shy away from those comments. Hamas is an evil death cult that should be wiped from the Earth, it manages to survive by wrapping itself with the population of Gaza.

It’s war, it’s survival, will innocents die? Yes, because it’s war, because it’s survival.

Do I want that? No. But it’s not about what us here nice and relatively safe in the U.K. want, is it?

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Paul

On what do you base this exactly ?

There’s polling to say that the majority of people support a ceasefire. A larger minority opposed flying Israeli flags above Government buildings in the immediate aftermath of the terrorist attacks than the minority who supported - with a sizeable “don’t know”.

Also, what War Crimes has it been convicted of ?

Much like criminal law, a conviction doesn’t mean events didn’t happen.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by jfman

There’s polling to say that the majority of people support a ceasefire. A larger minority opposed flying Israeli flags above Government buildings in the immediate aftermath of the terrorist attacks than the minority who supported - with a sizeable “don’t know”.



Much like criminal law, a conviction doesn’t mean events didn’t happen.

The people supporting a ceasefire were not connected to the Israelis who were brutally murdered by Hamas.

And the question of flying Israeli flags above government buildings is totally confected.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by jfman

She will get a sympathetic ear among the vast majority of people in this country who support a ceasefire.

People in this country have no right to demand Israel to do anything, talk about imperialistic privilege, something I know you like to talk about now and then.


I’m pretty sure all the British marching on London, would think differently if it was their baby beheaded, their child kidnapped and held hostage, their wife executed, their husband tortured, their elderly parents slaughtered.

Those marching in the U.K. are able to display their “luxury beliefs”….it costs them nothing and they can appear to be “right on” with their annoying non-binary blue haired friends.

Originally Posted by jfman

There’s polling to say that the majority of people support a ceasefire.

Nice bit of BS - but thats not what you said at all.

Israel had little sympathy among the population at large to start with

Originally Posted by jfman

Much like criminal law, a conviction doesn’t mean events didn’t happen.

Another vague response that really answers nothing and does not support your statement (and also, read it again, I dont think it even makes sense).