Trump’s Troubles

Originally Posted by Pierre

I wonder if everyone would be so desperate to destroy him if he wasn’t Donald Trump?

Of course.He's a complete charlatan.And it's time for the cult of Donald to be over.He's a vile human being and the sooner he's gone the better for democracy.

What really puzzles me is why the US seems to be so in love with senile old men for president.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Maggy

Of course.He's a complete charlatan.And it's time for the cult of Donald to be over.He's a vile human being and the sooner he's gone the better for democracy.

What really puzzles me is why the US seems to be so in love with senile old men for president.

It's the way capitalism reminds the proles that they too can work well beyond a reasonable retirement age.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Chris

Tell someone you drank the MAGA kool-aid, without telling them you drank the MAGA-kool aid …

MAGA means nothing to me, I’m not American and I’m not domiciled there.

I can only call it, as how I perceive it.

They (whoever they are) are so desperate to stop him from running , and most likely winning, again.

They can’t get criminally just yet, so they’re just trying bankrupt him.

I wonder if they’ll do a deep dive into Hunter Biden and Joe Biden’s dealings in Ukraine?

Originally Posted by Pierre

MAGA means nothing to me, I’m not American and I’m not domiciled there.

I can only call it, as how I perceive it.

They (whoever they are) are so desperate to stop him from running , and most likely winning, again.

They can’t get criminally just yet, so they’re just trying bankrupt him.

I wonder if they’ll do a deep dive into Hunter Biden and Joe Biden’s dealings in Ukraine?

You mean this ongoing investigation?

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/in...ies-to-burisma

What are your thoughts on Trump trying to put up alternate Electoral College voters in seven States, and also pressuring the Georgia Secretary of State into finding more votes for Trump after the count was completed, to overturn the result in Trump’s favour?

Originally Posted by Pierre

MAGA means nothing to me, I’m not American and I’m not domiciled there.

I can only call it, as how I perceive it.

They (whoever they are) are so desperate to stop him from running , and most likely winning, again.

They can’t get criminally just yet, so they’re just trying bankrupt him.

I wonder if they’ll do a deep dive into Hunter Biden and Joe Biden’s dealings in Ukraine?

And you just so happen to be calling it based entirely on the fulminations of Trump’s fans in sections of the US media and public life.

Nobody who has actually read any of the evidence against Trump in the cases he’s lost so far could conclude that ‘they’ are simply trying to bankrupt him so he can’t run for office. He did actually rape someone, and then repeatedly libelled and slandered them afterwards when they tried to get redress. He has committed fraud on a grand scale in New York. These are findings of fact. A significant number of paid-up GOP members accept this and are thoroughly mortified at the thought Trump is on course to get his party’s nomination for president.

Investigations against Hunter Biden are of course proceeding. Again, you can only conclude they’re not if all you listen to is MAGA jungle drums. You really need to stop and check which news sources you’re relying on, because you really aren’t the free thinker you seem to think you are.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Chris

He did actually rape someone

Did he? Rape is a level 3 felony, guaranteed 3-16 years in prison.

If he did, beyond doubt, he’d be in prison.

Originally Posted by Pierre

Did he? Rape is a level 3 felony, guaranteed 3-16 years in prison.

If he did, beyond doubt, he’d be in prison.

He did.

There’s a statute of limitations in New York State. This was extended in 2022 to allow civil remedy, but the rape occurred too long ago for it to be dealt with now as a criminal matter.

So, yes, he did rape her, within the commonly understood definition of that term - so said the trial judge, clarifying the ruling:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...ll-judge-rape/

You may of course insist on legal niceties such as the strict definition of rape vs sexual abuse, and liability rather than guilt, but then that’s exactly what Trump’s advisors and legal team has been doing in the six months since the trial concluded. Again, I suggest the problem here is less people out to get Trump, and more which bits of the internet you’ve been sucked into.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Chris

He did.

There’s a statute of limitations in New York State. This was extended in 2022 to allow civil remedy, but the rape occurred too long ago for it to be dealt with now as a criminal matter.

So, yes, he did rape her, within the commonly understood definition of that term - so said the trial judge, clarifying the ruling:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...ll-judge-rape/

You may of course insist on legal niceties such as the strict definition of rape vs sexual abuse, and liability rather than guilt, but then that’s exactly what Trump’s advisors and legal team has been doing in the six months since the trial concluded. Again, I suggest the problem here is less people out to get Trump, and more which bits of the internet you’ve been sucked into.

Convenient that the accusation wasn’t brought when the level of proof of the crime was beyond a reasonable doubt in front of a jury and the penalty was incarceration, instead of a balance of probabilities and the opinion of a judge with purely financial consequences……….apologies for my scepticism.

You accuse me of not being a free thinker, but I turn it around and accuse you of the same, you don’t come into this discussion without your own biases, that is evident and normal.

There have been many facts, that weren’t…….All those people that were killed on Jan 6th……but weren’t.

The backlash of the “very fine people on both sides” after Charlottesville, where he was misquoted but that misinformation (to use the modern term) was never corrected and was used as the very election springboard for Biden.

My overriding position on this, is that come November, the only deciding factor should be the electorate. If they want to vote for a Narcissistic, misogynistic, disingenuous, fraudulent, fat old man…..then that’s up to them. It shouldn’t be decided by anyone else.

And if the Democrats can’t, or think they can’t, beat such a candidate, then that says a hell of a lot about their proposition.

But what if that narcissistic, misogynistic, disingenuous, fraudulent, fat old man tried to illegally put up alternate Electoral College voters in seven States, and also tried to illegally pressure the Georgia Secretary of State into finding more votes for the nmdffom after the count was completed, to illegally overturn the result in the nmdffom’s favour?

Meanwhile….

https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/16/polit...its/index.html

Civil lawsuits seeking to hold Donald Trump accountable for the January 6, 2021, US Capitol attack can move forward after the former president declined to ask the Supreme Court to decide whether he is shielded by presidential immunity.

A federal appeals court in December cleared the way for three lawsuits brought against Trump by Democratic lawmakers and US Capitol Police officers to proceed, unanimously holding that not everything a president does or says while in office is protected from liability.

Trump faced a Thursday deadline to seek the Supreme Court’s review of that decision, but his legal team declined to turn to the high court.

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by Hugh

But what if that narcissistic, misogynistic, disingenuous, fraudulent, fat old man tried to illegally put up alternate Electoral College voters in seven States, and also tried to illegally pressure the Georgia Secretary of State into finding more votes for the nmdffom after the count was completed, to illegally overturn the result in the nmdffom’s favour?

Yes but he does those funky 'Make America Great again' hats at 40 dollars each. They are well cool to go out shooting with. Plus they fund his fines.

.....

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Hugh

But what if that narcissistic, misogynistic, disingenuous, fraudulent, fat old man tried to illegally put up alternate Electoral College voters in seven States, and also tried to illegally pressure the Georgia Secretary of State into finding more votes for the nmdffom after the count was completed, to illegally overturn the result in the nmdffom’s favour?

If found guilty and convicted, criminally, he will be sentenced

Meanwhile….

https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/16/polit...its/index.html

Civil suits are Great entertainment

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Pierre

Convenient that the accusation wasn’t brought when the level of proof of the crime was beyond a reasonable doubt in front of a jury and the penalty was incarceration, instead of a balance of probabilities and the opinion of a judge with purely financial consequences……….apologies for my scepticism.

You accuse me of not being a free thinker, but I turn it around and accuse you of the same, you don’t come into this discussion without your own biases, that is evident and normal.

There have been many facts, that weren’t…….All those people that were killed on Jan 6th……but weren’t.

The backlash of the “very fine people on both sides” after Charlottesville, where he was misquoted but that misinformation (to use the modern term) was never corrected and was used as the very election springboard for Biden.

My overriding position on this, is that come November, the only deciding factor should be the electorate. If they want to vote for a Narcissistic, misogynistic, disingenuous, fraudulent, fat old man…..then that’s up to them. It shouldn’t be decided by anyone else.

And if the Democrats can’t, or think they can’t, beat such a candidate, then that says a hell of a lot about their proposition.

Although it's relevant for the purposes of defamation the court filing itself does feel a bit like "if he committed the same crime in a different place, and was prosecuted to a higher evidence threshold, he would be considered a rapist."

https://storage.courtlistener.com/re...0045.212.0.pdf

Some may point out that I routinely call the officer in the George Floyd incident a murderer for an equivalent charge to manslaughter - but he was convicted of second degree murder in the place it actually happened.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by jfman

Although it's relevant for the purposes of defamation the court filing itself does feel a bit like "if he committed the same crime in a different place, and was prosecuted to a higher evidence threshold, he would be considered a rapist."

https://storage.courtlistener.com/re...0045.212.0.pdf

Some may point out that I routinely call the officer in the George Floyd incident a murderer for an equivalent charge to manslaughter - but he was convicted of second degree murder in the place it actually happened.

In a criminal trial this would blow it away.

The plaintiff would be taken apart by any competent council.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/vi...rape_sexy.html

The individual is clearly unhinged. She said of rape:

E. JEAN CARROLL: I think most people think of rape as being sexy.

ANDERSON COOPER: Let's take a short break.

E. JEAN CARROLL: Think of the fantasies.

But I know that Chris, understands that she was raped ” within the commonly understood definition of that term “

But we all have our biases……….pretty sure if you were raped you wouldn’t see it as sexy.

Anyway, i wouldn’t presume to “know” all or to attack someone for not being the

free thinker you seem to think you are.

when the smug latitude you afford yourself is clearly not on the solid foundation you may think it is.

The arbiter of this will be neither of us, or as sure you think you are.

---------- Post added at 23:06 ---------- Previous post was at 22:52 ----------

Also, personally, in this thread the argument seems to have seamlessly gone straight to you show.any pro-Trump inclination………you’re a MAGA right wing frothing at the mouth lunatic….I’m not pro-trump but am sympathetic to a lot of it.

Very balanced.

[Stephen]

He turned up at a sneaker convention trying to flog $400 sneakers. Trump was of course booed off stage by the crowd. He is desperate.

Originally Posted by Pierre

But I know that Chris, understands that she was raped ” within the commonly understood definition of that term “

Actually I was quoting, or at least paraphrasing, the trial judge, which I’m sure you know because you read the link I provided for you …