U.S Election 2016

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by Mick

Talk about a sense of humour failure. Good grief ..

[figgyburn]

But after sifting through databases, media reports, court documents, and other sources, Alex Nowrasteh, an immigration expert at the libertarian Cato Institute, has arrived at a striking finding: Nationals of the seven countries singled out by Trump have killed zero people in terrorist attacks on U.S. soil between 1975 and 2015.

Libertarian Cato Institute.Really?.Fake News.

[pip08456]

Originally Posted by ianch99

Now this *is* newsworthy:

https://www.theatlantic.com/internat...rorism/514361/

OK let's take at least one of those "newsworthy facts"

Over the last four decades, 20 out of 3.25 million refugees welcomed to the United States have been convicted of attempting or committing terrorism on U.S. soil

How many of those 20 have been convicted in the last 10 years?

How many in the last 5 years?

9/11 only happened 16 yrs ago and since only then has the terrorist threat risen from the middle east so why go back 40 yrs unless you wish to use statistics as part of your agenda?

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by pip08456

OK let's take at least one of those "newsworthy facts"

Over the last four decades, 20 out of 3.25 million refugees welcomed to the United States have been convicted of attempting or committing terrorism on U.S. soil

How many of those 20 have been convicted in the last 10 years?

How many in the last 5 years?

9/11 only happened 16 yrs ago and since only then has the terrorist threat risen from the middle east so why go back 40 yrs unless you wish to use statistics as part of your agenda?

Here you go:

How Many Terrorist Attacks in the U.S. Have Been Carried Out by Immigrants from the 7 Banned Muslim Countries?

According to the Washington Post and Bloomberg, Trump’s ban did not include any of the Muslim-majority countries where the Trump Organization — which is now being run by his sons — holds business interests. Those countries reportedly include Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Turkey, the U.A.E. and Azerbaijan.

Here’s a look back at the major terrorist attacks that have taken place on U.S. soil since 9/11, including the nationalities of the perpetrator, or perpetrators.

Of this list, zero fatal attacks were carried out by immigrants from the seven Muslim-majority countries targeted by the ban. Two attacks were carried out by individuals with ties to the seven countries: the 2006 UNC SUV attack, and the 2016 Ohio State University attack. Neither of those plots resulted in American deaths.

9/11 attacks:

On Sept. 11, 2001, 19 militants hijacked four commercial airlines to carry out terrorist attacks on the U.S. that killed 2,996 people and wounded more than 6,000 others. The 19 men were associated with al-Qaeda, a decentralized terrorist network, at the time led by Osama bin Laden.

Of the 19 hijackers, 15 were from Saudi Arabia, two from the United Arab Emirates, one from Egypt and one from Lebanon.

2001 anthrax attacks:

Anonymous letters laced with deadly anthrax spores began arriving at media companies and congressional offices, killing five people and infecting 17 others. The FBI concluded Bruce Ivins, a top biodefense researcher, was the key suspect for the attacks, although he was never charged with any crime. Ivins was American.

2002 D.C. sniper attacks:

Over the course of three weeks in 2002, John Allen Muhammad and Lee Boyd Malvo killed 10 people and critically injured three others in Washington D.C., Baltimore, and Virginia.

Muhammad was born as John Allen Williams in Baton Rouge, Louisiana. Malvo is from Jamaica.

2006 UNC SUV attack:

Mohammed Reza Taheri-aza intentionally rammed into people on the UNC Chapel Hill campus. Nine people were injured, none seriously. Taheri-aza was reportedly an Iranian-born U.S. citizen.

2006 Seattle Capitol Hill massacre:

Kyle Aaron Huff opened fire in a rave afterparty in Seattle’s Capitol Hill, killing six and wounding two others. Huff was American, from Whitefish, Montana.

2006 Seattle Jewish Federation shooting:

Naveed Afzal Haq shot six people, one fatally, at the Jewish Federation of Greater Seattle building. Haq was a U.S. citizen of Pakistani descent.

2008 Knoxville Unitarian Universalist church shooting:

Jim David Adkisson killed two people and wounded seven others at the Tennessee Valley Unitarian Universalist Church in Knoxville, Tennessee. Adkisson was American.


2009 Arkansas recruiting office shooting:

Abdulhakim Mujahid Muhammad shot and killed one military recruiter and seriously wounded another at a Little Rock, Arkansas Army/Navy Career Center. Muhammad, previously known as Carlos Leon Bledsoe, was American.

2009 Fort Hood shooting:

Nidal Malik Hasan, a U.S. Army major and psychiatrist, fatally shot 13 people and injured more than 30 others in Fort Hood, Texas. Hasan was born in the U.S. to Palestinian parents.

2010 Austin suicide attack:

Andrew Joseph Stack III deliberately crashed his single engine plane into the Austin, Texas, IRS building, killing himself, one IRS employee and injuring 13 others. Stack was American.

2012 Wisconsin Sikh temple shooting:

Wade Michael Page fatally shot six people and wounded four others at a Sikh temple is Oak Creek, Wisconsin. Page, who was active in white supremacist groups, was an American.

2013 Boston marathon bombing:

Double bombings near the finish line of the Boston marathon killed three people and injured at least 264. The perpetrators were brothers Tamerlan and Dzhokhar Tsarnaev. According to FBI interrogators, the two were motivated by extremist Islamic beliefs, but were not connected to any known terrorist groups. Tamerlan was born in Russia but was a permanent resident of the U.S., while Dzhokhar was born in Kyrgyzstan and became a naturalized U.S. citizen in 2012. Both were ethnically Chechen.

2013 Los Angeles International Airport shooting:


Paul Anthony Ciancia opened fire at Terminal 3 in LAX, killing one and injuring several others. Ciancia is American and grew up in Pennsville, New Jersey.

2013 Overland Park Jewish Community Center shooting:

Frazier Glenn Miller, Jr., a neo-Nazi white supremacist, committed a pair of shootings at the Jewish Community Center in Overland Park, Kansas, killing a total of three people. Miller was American.

2014 Las Vegas shooting:

A married couple, Jerad and Amanda Miller, committed a shooting spree in Las Vegas, killing three people as well as themselves. Both were American and supported extreme anti-government views.

2014 Queens hatchet attack:

Zale H. Thompson attacked four New York City Police Department officers with a metal hatchet, injuring two. A civilian was also injured after police opened fire on Thompson. Thompson, who was American, was described by police officials as a self-radicalized Muslim convert who was inspired by terrorist groups.

2014 slayings of NYPD officers:

Ismaaiyl Abdullah Brinsley killed two on-duty NYPD officers, reportedly as revenge for the deaths of Eric Garner and Michael Brown. Brinsley was born in the U.S. to a Muslim African-American family.

2015 Charleston church shooting:

Dylann Roof killed nine people and injured one during a mass shooting at Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church in downtown Charleston, South Carolina. Roof, a white supremacist, is American and was sentenced to death on Jan. 10.

2015 Chattanooga shooting:

Muhammad Youssef Abdulazeez opened fire on two military installations in Chattanooga, Tennessee, killing four Marines and wounding two others. A fifth Marine died from his injuries two days later. Abdulazeez, a naturalized U.S. citizen, was born in Kuwait to Palestinian-Jordanian parents.

2015 Colorado Springs Planned Parenthood shooting:

Robert Lewis Dear, Jr. committed a mass shooting at a Colorado Springs Planned Parenthood clinic, killing three and injury nine others. Dear, who is American, was ruled incompetent to stand trial and was indefinitely confined to a Colorado state mental hospital.


2015 San Bernardino attack:

A married couple, Syed Rizwan Farook and Tashfeen Malik, killed 14 civilians and injured 22 others in a mass shooting at the Inland Regional Center in San Bernardino, California. Farook was born in the U.S. to Pakistani parents, and Malik, who was a permanent U.S. resident, was born in Pakistan but grew up in Saudi Arabia.

2016 Orlando nightclub shooting:

Omar Mateen killed 49 people and wounded 53 in a mass shooting at the gay nightclub Pulse in Orlando, Florida. Mateen was an American born in the U.S. to Afghan parents.

2016 shooting of Dallas police officers: Micah Xavier Johnson ambushed a group of Dallas police officers, killing five and injuring nine others. Johnson, a former Army reservist, was an American.

2016 Minnesota mall stabbing:

Dahir A. Adan committed a mass stabbing at the Crossroads Center shopping mall in St. Cloud, Minnesota, injuring 10 people. Adan was born in Kenya and became a naturalized U.S. citizen in 2008.

2016 New York and New Jersey bombings:

Over the course of three days in September, three bombs exploded and several explosive devices were found in New Jersey and New York City, injuring at least 30 people. The alleged perpetrator was Ahmad Khan Rahimi, an Afghan-born U.S. citizen.

2016 Ohio State university attack:

Abdul Razal Ali Artan carried out an attack on the Ohio State University campus, injuring 13. Artan, a student of the university, was a Muslim Somali immigrant.

2017 Fort Lauderdale Airport attack:

A mass shooting occurred at Fort Lauderdale-Hollywood International Airport near the baggage claim in Terminal 2 on Jan. 6. A total of five people were killed and six others were injured. Esteban Ruiz Santiago, the alleged shooter, was indicted on 22 counts by a federal grand jury on Thursday. Santiago is an American, born to Puerto Rican parents in New Jersey.

---------- Post added at 14:45 ---------- Previous post was at 14:42 ----------

Originally Posted by figgyburn

But after sifting through databases, media reports, court documents, and other sources, Alex Nowrasteh, an immigration expert at the libertarian Cato Institute, has arrived at a striking finding: Nationals of the seven countries singled out by Trump have killed zero people in terrorist attacks on U.S. soil between 1975 and 2015.

Libertarian Cato Institute.Really?.Fake News.

Don't be lazy. Show us the proof that this is fake ..

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by ianch99

Now this *is* newsworthy:

https://www.theatlantic.com/internat...rorism/514361/

Nationals of the seven countries singled out by Trump have killed zero people in terrorist attacks on U.S. soil between 1975 and 2015.

That doesn't mean that there haven't been plots that have been thwarted or that there is credible intelligence that there is a risk.

successful implementation of such a policy as this would be a continued 20-30 years of no one from these countries killing a US citizen.

Such Arguments are laughable, and of playground level intelligence.

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by Mick

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/178844

It's nearly at 100K that is needed for it to go to possible debate. Not a bad amount of signatures, given that you will not find this Petition being linked to in the Media, like the one petitioning the State visit to be cancelled was heavily broadcast.

thanks for that - signed

[Osem]

Fallacious argument. How does anyone know how many budding terrorists from some or all of those countries are either already in the US or trying to get there with the sole intention of causing mayhem? Is the US supposed to wait for the worst to happen before they do something about it? Would enforcing a ban after a terrorist incident involving any such nationals then be deemed acceptable? Trump would be blamed either way by those currently clamouring for his demise.

Don't know about anyone else but I'm getting increasingly hacked off with people ranging from deluded protestors and biased lefty hacks to the likes of Baroness Chakrabati speaking on behalf of the 'British' people. I'm British and they certainly don't speak for me. Kevin Maguire was on TV earlier claiming that the 'British people' would show their disdain for Trump if he dared to pass down the Mall on any state visit. The fact is that 95% of the British people won't be doing that but let's not worry about that eh Kev, let's just stir up the usual suspects again to cause a bit of trouble and seize the airtime for a minority and their views.

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by Pierre

That doesn't mean that there haven't been plots that have been thwarted or that there is credible intelligence that there is a risk.

successful implementation of such a policy as this would be a continued 20-30 years of no one from these countries killing a US citizen.

Such Arguments are laughable, and of playground level intelligence.

The age old last resort of right-wing (and left-wing) politics: if you can't debate, insults will have to do.

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by RizzyKing

These protestors are only interested in their version of democracy not the universal concept they woukd happily overturn the election to get Trump out if they could nothing democratic about them they dislike Trump and that's all that matters to them.

i think these idiots give card board a bad name .

Originally Posted by Osem

Fallacious argument. How does anyone know how many budding terrorists from some or all of those countries are either already in the US or trying to get there with the sole intention of causing mayhem? Is the US supposed to wait for the worst to happen before they do something about it? Would enforcing a ban after a terrorist incident involving any such nationals then be deemed acceptable? Trump would be blamed either way by those currently clamouring for his demise.

Don't know about anyone else but I'm getting increasingly hacked off with people ranging from deluded protestors and biased lefty hacks to the likes of Baroness Chakrabati speaking on behalf of the 'British' people. I'm British and they certainly don't speak for me. Kevin Maguire was on TV earlier claiming that the 'British people' would show their disdain for Trump if he dared to pass down the Mall on any state visit. The fact is that 95% of the British people won't be doing that but let's not worry about that eh Kev, let's just stir up the usual suspects again to cause a bit of trouble and seize the airtime for a minority and their views.

I had to remind myself who Kevin Maquire was, he is associated with The Mirror. Enough said.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Damien

Are there people who are condemning Trump that approve of what China is doing? No one is calling for a boycott of American goods (so far) so I don't see the contradiction in criticizing Trump and not boycotting goods made in China.

Besides this gets a bit whataboutery if the respond to complaints about Trump are to say 'well what about China'?

I was using Chinese products as an example to highlight the double standards. There's no great clamour for anything to be done about China by the anti-Trump brigade or Russia's recent appalling change to their laws on domestic violence. The point I am making is that there are plenty of evil people and things going on in the world yet we don't have million signature petitions about them do we? No, far more morally superior to jump on the latest media hyped anti-Trump bandwagon when he's actually done nothing in comparison. As unpleasant as it is for innocent people to be caught up in this current situation, it's a laughable over-reaction and the extreme language being bandied about is typical of the twitter universe and all too many of its sad inhabitants.

Originally Posted by papa smurf

i think these idiots give card board a bad name .

This is just it, they care so much for the environment (supposedly), some even protested on that very subject the other week in the women's march, however, they left all their crap in the streets when they went home. That's another bout of hypocrisy at it's finest.

https://twitter.com/LisaFlanery/stat...rc=twsrc%5Etfw

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Mick

I had to remind myself who Kevin Maquire was, he is associated with The Mirror. Enough said.

Yes but he speaks for the 'British people' remember...

---------- Post added at 18:08 ---------- Previous post was at 18:07 ----------

Originally Posted by Mick

This is just it, they care so much for the environment (supposedly), some even protested on that very subject the other week in the women's march, however, they left all their crap in the streets when they went home. That's another bout of hypocrisy at it's finest.

https://twitter.com/LisaFlanery/stat...rc=twsrc%5Etfw

Sadly that's typical of far too many of these people.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by ianch99

The age old last resort of right-wing (and left-wing) politics: if you can't debate, insults will have to do.

I am debating, whilst also passing opinion on the level of debate being offered.

[1andrew1]

Amber Rudd: Trump travel ban could help IS
Donald Trump's US travel ban on people from seven mainly Muslim countries could become a "propaganda opportunity" for so-called Islamic State, the UK's home secretary has warned.
Amber Rudd called the president's move "divisive" and "wrong".
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-38814346