Unstoppable migration?

[Osem]

Originally Posted by nomadking

It is basically saying this. Current level is 95, if the EU influx hadn't happened then it would've been 100. Leaving the EU won't automatically mean it will head back all the way to 100. Other factors are in play, but it might end up at 97. One of which that the presence of those already here will limit its recovery. If we stayed in, the 95 would drop FURTHER to 94, 93, ... 90. We can't undo the effect of the previous EU influx, but we can stop it increasing yet further and having a greater detrimental effect. Whichever way you look at it, they are worse off because of the EU, and would be even more worse off if we stayed.

More people simply equals more problems which have to be dealt with, including the serious environmental ones which we're told are so critical to the future of the planet.

Take a look at what's happening in large parts of London. More and more people being crammed into smaller and smaller spaces; roads/transport can't cope with the level of demand; local authorities overwhelmed; schools full; A&Es full; nowhere to park; every little space being built upon; multiple occupancy slums etc etc. At what point is the permanent damage to London and all the direct/indirect costs taken into account in the equation by those for whom GDP is the Holy Grail? It's not like what's happening can be reversed if we decide we don't like it after all. How far along the journey to London becoming Lagos are we going to go before someone says STOP?! The lack of foresight evident with regard to the ramifications of population growth is incredible.

It seems to me that if populations, especially from poorer countries, are allowed to move freely in such vast numbers, that's exactly what happens and it does so far more rapidly than the ability of the receiving nation(s) to cope with it all in practical terms as well as socially and economically.

There are too many communities not getting the services they need for us to keep taking in the numbers we have for the last twenty years. We need a period of no immigration in order to rebalance our society as there have been too many people coming in and it has done a great deal of damage to our society not least the number of people who are not as tolerant as they were. Our good intentions and welcoming nature have been abused by a large group who have come here creating problems in many areas but try and discuss it or question the wisdom of it and your automatically against immigrants and off to the right politically.

I want the UK to always be a place where people in danger can find sanctuary and get the help they need to rebuild their lives but that doesn't apply to the majority that have come in the last couple of decades and doesnt apply to the calais mob currently trying to get in. We have been a bit of a soft touch and have been too quick to let certain people in when we didn't have the resources to ensure they were not a threat and problems are starting to come to the surface and need to be addressed not just dismissed or brushed off as has been the norm lately.

Originally Posted by nomadking

It is basically saying this. Current level is 95, if the EU influx hadn't happened then it would've been 100. Leaving the EU won't automatically mean it will head back all the way to 100. Other factors are in play, but it might end up at 97. One of which that the presence of those already here will limit its recovery. If we stayed in, the 95 would drop FURTHER to 94, 93, ... 90. We can't undo the effect of the previous EU influx, but we can stop it increasing yet further and having a greater detrimental effect. Whichever way you look at it, they are worse off because of the EU, and would be even more worse off if we stayed.

That isn't what it's saying.

While the growth in the share of migrants in the population did not affect the earnings of native workers overall, it is wrong to say they had no effect. Increased migration did drag on earnings in some sectors (by between 0.5-2.0%), but these small effects do not explain and were in fact dwarfed by the general pay squeeze experienced during the same period (4.7-9.7%). In the next few years a fall in migration will do little to ameliorate the squeeze on wages for native workers.

http://www.resolutionfoundation.org/...labour-market/

Depending on the performance of the economy it may have got/worse better if we Remained in the EU and it might get better/worse now.

[Osem]

A double murderer who posed as a refugee to enter the UK illegally is to be extradited.
Avni Metra, 53, came to Britain in 1998, one year after he killed two brothers in his native Albania.
He was convicted in his absence of both murders and possession of firearms, Westminster Magistrates' Court heard.
District judge Margot Coleman told Metra, who had argued he would not get a fair trial abroad, his life in Britain was "based on a lie".
Metra, who was living in Borehamwood, Hertfordshire, was arrested by Scotland Yard detectives on 8 June as he drove through Watford, after a tip-off from the Daily Mail.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england...herts-37130065

I wonder how many more like him they are - murders and criminals given new lives on the basis of cynical lies all too easily told and a flawed asylum system?

Nice to see the Daily Mail doing the police's work for them but I'll believe he's finally been despatched when I see it.

[Taf]

My ex-neighbour, a Czech Roma, has now added yet another child to his brood, and came to see me as he was having problems getting various forms (mostly benefit claim forms) completed for a yet another large group of Czech/Slovakian/Hungarian Roma that appeared on his doorstep demanding help.

I told him to sort it himself as he has been here long enough to have learned how to read and write English.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Taf

My ex-neighbour, a Czech Roma, has now added yet another child to his brood, and came to see me as he was having problems getting various forms (mostly benefit claim forms) completed for a yet another large group of Czech/Slovakian/Hungarian Roma that appeared on his doorstep demanding help.

I told him to sort it himself as he has been here long enough to have learned how to read and write English.

It's not happening, you're imagining it...

It's not as if these countries are keen to get shot of their gypsy minority is it.

[Osem]

Closed borders in the Balkans and the EU-Turkey deal have drastically reduced arrivals of migrants and refugees to Greece, but arrivals to Italy have continued at a similar rate to last year. The key difference is that fewer are able to move on to northern Europe, leaving Italy’s reception system buckling under the pressure and migrants paying the price.

http://www.irinnews.org/news/2016/08...-asylum-system

The new approach was also designed to facilitate the relocation of asylum seekers from the overwhelmed frontline states of Italy and Greece to other EU member states that had agreed to take in 160,000 people over two years.

But the relocation scheme has been an abject failure. By mid-July, only about 3,000 people had been relocated, and just 843 of them from Italy. In addition, many of those identified as economic migrants cannot easily be returned to their home countries due to the lack of readmission agreements.

Who'd have thought an EU policy would be an abject failure...

[Taf]

Originally Posted by Osem

It's not as if these countries are keen to get shot of their gypsy minority is it.

IMO "moderate" Roma were in the first wave of (legal) immigrants when the G8 countries were allowed to access the EU. After that initial group the chancers started to flood in. They were always here in some numbers of course. All over Europe. Crime stats from many western EU countries show their presence by the levels of petty crimes they were involved in.

Most of the "moderates" I personally know have settled and tried in some part to integrate. But not totally. Their poor schooling back home shows up in those who have no access to education in the UK. So the parents lack English skills, whilst their younger children seem to doing well. I know a few that arrived as teenagers that are in and out of prison for petty crimes as well as drugs offences. But many of the teenagers that grew up here are attending college, with 3 I know in Uni (but living at home).

A few families are very afraid of the newer arrivals. Crime appears to be their only method of this group of providing for their families (who arrived with them or remain back home) until they qualify for benefits. And if they fall on bad times, they descend upon those earning a legal income like locusts. And not just appearing and eating and drinking until sated, they also demand cash, or items they can sell for cash.

Refuse, and the violence starts. Very bad violence. I know a few who have been hospitalised. I took one to hospital myself.

They were quite well spread across this city, but have slowly gravitated together, often sniffing-out low rent areas. But another group has done the same. Kurds of all nations. And they don't get on at all. At any age.

If May uses BREXIT to allow many to stay, we will have yet another powder keg under us just waiting to be ignited.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Taf

IMO "moderate" Roma were in the first wave of (legal) immigrants when the G8 countries were allowed to access the EU. After that initial group the chancers started to flood in. They were always here in some numbers of course. All over Europe. Crime stats from many western EU countries show their presence by the levels of petty crimes they were involved in.

Most of the "moderates" I personally know have settled and tried in some part to integrate. But not totally. Their poor schooling back home shows up in those who have no access to education in the UK. So the parents lack English skills, whilst their younger children seem to doing well. I know a few that arrived as teenagers that are in and out of prison for petty crimes as well as drugs offences. But many of the teenagers that grew up here are attending college, with 3 I know in Uni (but living at home).

A few families are very afraid of the newer arrivals. Crime appears to be their only method of this group of providing for their families (who arrived with them or remain back home) until they qualify for benefits. And if they fall on bad times, they descend upon those earning a legal income like locusts. And not just appearing and eating and drinking until sated, they also demand cash, or items they can sell for cash.

Refuse, and the violence starts. Very bad violence. I know a few who have been hospitalised. I took one to hospital myself.

They were quite well spread across this city, but have slowly gravitated together, often sniffing-out low rent areas. But another group has done the same. Kurds of all nations. And they don't get on at all. At any age.

If May uses BREXIT to allow many to stay, we will have yet another powder keg under us just waiting to be ignited.

The saddest thing of all is that this sort of thing was as inevitable as it was predictable and ought to have been given far more consideration (if indeed any was ever given) before the floodgates were opened to one and all. Very many of those poorer countries with a sizeable Roma 'problem' couldn't wait to join the club, collect their Euro-payouts and get rid of their Roma problem at the same time. They even encouraged Roma to leave for pastures new. Sadly those who made the decisions were and still are totally out of touch, but then they've always made sure they and theirs are very nicely insulated against the fallout. Meanwhile, poor, desperate and disadvantaged people are being set against eachother and all manner of foreign criminals and undesirables have seized the opportunity to ply their trade in a country which offers relatively easy pickings in all sorts of ways.

Make no mistake, the vast majority will be allowed to stay because there isn't the political will to do something about it and I fully agree that big trouble lies ahead both here and in countries like Italy, Germany, France, Greece etc. which are facing even worse problems. The professional do-gooders who insist on conflating refugees and migrants know full well the vast majority are economic will never be sent away but to admit that would fatally undermine their position so they continue with the deception. Unlike the situation during the Balkans conflict, we now at least have access to some numbers and they don't make very comforting reading. Really, anyone would think that our glorious leaders actually wanted to create chaos and unrest...

Labour were quite deliberate in allowing in all and sundry from 2000-2006 as part of some ridiculous social experiment and all it's done is sped us to a volatile situation which is ongoing. This country is like a pressure cooker at the minute pressure is building we can only hope the right people with the right policies are the one's that release that pressure. Given the track record over the last few years I'm not overly confident it seems easier to put your head in the sand and not live where the problems are showing and alls good.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by RizzyKing

Labour were quite deliberate in allowing in all and sundry from 2000-2006 as part of some ridiculous social experiment and all it's done is sped us to a volatile situation which is ongoing. This country is like a pressure cooker at the minute pressure is building we can only hope the right people with the right policies are the one's that release that pressure. Given the track record over the last few years I'm not overly confident it seems easier to put your head in the sand and not live where the problems are showing and alls good.

Yes they certainly were - a fact many a rose tinted dyed in the wool working class chap whose wages have been eroded still seems to overlook for some odd reason.

[heero_yuy]

An MEP has proposed putting pigs' heads on Hungary’s border fences to deter refugees trying to enter the country.

The country’s right-wing government has been criticised internationally following its perceived harsh attitude towards refugees. As part of measures to block refugees seeking to enter the country, Hungary erected a vast border fence in the hopes of stopping movement into their borders.

It recently emerged security forces have begun making scarecrows in crude attempts to deter refugees trying to enter. In response to criticism over the tactic, Hungarian MEP for the Christian Democratic European Peoples’ Party Gyorgy Schopflin tweeted: “Human images are haram… pig’s head would deter more effectively.” The Twitter account is listed on the official website of the European parliament as Mr Schopflin’s account.

Linky

[RichardCoulter]

Originally Posted by Taf

My ex-neighbour, a Czech Roma, has now added yet another child to his brood, and came to see me as he was having problems getting various forms (mostly benefit claim forms) completed for a yet another large group of Czech/Slovakian/Hungarian Roma that appeared on his doorstep demanding help.

I told him to sort it himself as he has been here long enough to have learned how to read and write English.

This is it Taf. It isn't just the immigrants that come here, they have children that attract benefits, that need educating, that need health and maternity care etc etc.

I'm sure they know exactly what they are doing.

Also, how is it that when people in the UK get a foreign partner, that they usually come to live here?

Even if we discount the sham marriages, mail order Thai brides etc and accept that some relationships are genuinely based on love- why can't the UK partner move to their country if they love them so much?

I'm so pleased that it's become socially acceptable to be able to talk about the problems of immigration without the PC brigade being able to silence people by the inappropriate use of the R word.

Originally Posted by heero_yuy

Linky

You know what happens if a Muslim sees a pig, or a pig head, or pork?

Nothing.

They don't burst into flames. They don't scream and hide their eyes. They don't go to hell when they die. Nothing happens -- well, other revulsion, you know, like regular people get when they come upon a rotting animal's head on a fence.

You know what happens if a Muslim gets shot by a bullet dipped in pig's blood?

Nothing (other than the usual side effects of being shot).

You know what happens if a Muslim accidentally eats pork?

Nothing.

According to the Quran, if a Muslim has accidental contact with unclean animals, it's ... nothing. They don't go to hell. If they're aware of it, they ask their deity for forgiveness and try to be more careful in the future.

A thought - if people are this ignorant of the Islamic faith and especially if they got this easy part wrong, well, you know, maybe, just maybe, they're wrong about other parts of it too...

[techguyone]

Don't tell us, maybe tell those people who work in supermarkets and refuse to handle those kind of items in the course of their jobs as checkout clerks, despite the fact the said items are wrapped said clerk isn't consuming said item.
Don't pee on my shoes and tell me it's raining.

And for God's sake stop being such an apologist.