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Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
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Old 16-08-2017, 22:05   #2641
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Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !

Quote:
Originally Posted by Osem View Post
Maybe he's one of them and that's why he can't see or admit to anything positive outside of the EU.
Has he ever thought that those self same negotiators are more than likely the ones dealing with the Berexit negotiations?
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Old 17-08-2017, 00:21   #2642
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Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !

Quote:
Originally Posted by Osem View Post
Maybe he's one of them and that's why he can't see or admit to anything positive outside of the EU.
Ha ha. I remember when someone came on here and asked the Brexiters to post three positive things about the EU and the Remainers three positive things about leaving.
I stepped up but the Leavers just posted glib comments like "The best thing about the EU is leaving it"
You probably haven't seen it, but I have linked to articles critical of the EU. That's more open-mindedness than I've seen from a lot of people on this forum, you included.

Last edited by 1andrew1; 17-08-2017 at 00:27.
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Old 17-08-2017, 01:37   #2643
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Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 View Post
Ha ha. I remember when someone came on here and asked the Brexiters to post three positive things about the EU and the Remainers three positive things about leaving.
I stepped up but the Leavers just posted glib comments like "The best thing about the EU is leaving it"
You probably haven't seen it, but I have linked to articles critical of the EU. That's more open-mindedness than I've seen from a lot of people on this forum, you included.
How do you expect any "Brexiter" to post one positive thing when we don't find anything positive about it?

Let's take an example of something topical, the silencing of Big Ben for 4 years.

Quote:
The Parliamentary authorities said it would be ‘unacceptable’ to expose workers on scaffolding surrounding the tower to the noise of the chimes – and also ‘unacceptable’ for them to wear ear defenders.
Why is unacceptable for workers to wear ear defenders when needed?

The answer:

Quote:
EU health and safety rules dictate that ear defenders can be used only as a last resort in the workplace.
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Old 17-08-2017, 10:24   #2644
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Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !

Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 View Post
How do you expect any "Brexiter" to post one positive thing when we don't find anything positive about it?

Let's take an example of something topical, the silencing of Big Ben for 4 years.



Why is unacceptable for workers to wear ear defenders when needed?

The answer:
Why is the EU responsible for ear defenders not to be worn? The EU directive covers the noise thresholds deemed hazardous to health and the measures available to mitigate them.

Your phrase " EU health and safety rules dictate that ear defenders can be used only as a last resort in the workplace" is quoted from a Daily Mail article.

Taking your "facts" from the Daily Mail is a risky approach but this topic is a good example of how the anti-EU hysteria is propagated.
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Old 17-08-2017, 10:32   #2645
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Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 View Post
Ha ha. I remember when someone came on here and asked the Brexiters to post three positive things about the EU and the Remainers three positive things about leaving.
I stepped up but the Leavers just posted glib comments like "The best thing about the EU is leaving it"
You probably haven't seen it, but I have linked to articles critical of the EU. That's more open-mindedness than I've seen from a lot of people on this forum, you included.
That was me! I was frankly disappointed in the responses from some on here, including the very erudite 'NO' from one member. I thought it was an interesting intellectual exercise that clearly passed some by. I was a firm remainer and still think this is a bad decision (before we go on, I accept the result and would like to make us leaving as painless as possible) However, I could easily name three things that could be improved within the EU.

This is not a black and white issue as I have said before - very few things are.
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Old 17-08-2017, 10:44   #2646
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Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !

Quote:
Originally Posted by jonbxx View Post
That was me! I was frankly disappointed in the responses from some on here, including the very erudite 'NO' from one member. I thought it was an interesting intellectual exercise that clearly passed some by. I was a firm remainer and still think this is a bad decision (before we go on, I accept the result and would like to make us leaving as painless as possible) However, I could easily name three things that could be improved within the EU.

This is not a black and white issue as I have said before - very few things are.
I agree with with all you have said with the addendum that Leaving must be driven by the pragmatic needs of the country and not the religious dogma of the extremists.

The issue that a lot of people have is when a complex issue is re-painted as you say, black and white, it leads to wrong decisions.

Caricaturing the EU as the root of all evil is childish but it does play to a particular audience and some are gullible enough to believe the message.
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Old 17-08-2017, 10:51   #2647
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Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !

Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 View Post
Your phrase " EU health and safety rules dictate that ear defenders can be used only as a last resort in the workplace" is quoted from a Daily Mail article.

Taking your "facts" from the Daily Mail is a risky approach but this topic is a good example of how the anti-EU hysteria is propagated.
And anti health and safety hysteria as well! The suggestions that PPE should only be used as a last resort is there as clear as day on the HSE web site (link) Can't see anything similar in Directive 2003/10/EC
The HSE and BAuA (germany) pretty much set the health and safety agenda in the EU. Germany is a hell of lot more strict on the health side BTW
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Old 17-08-2017, 14:27   #2648
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Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !

Of course PPE is a last resort. If there is a hazard you remove the hazard first, then protect workers exposed to the hazard.

In the case of a clock bell striking it's a no brainer, you turn off the bell.

But it wasn't simply noise, it's the shock waves and that PPE gear can also become a hazard in their own right. If you block of sound, it makes it more difficult to communicate, e.g. what if you needed to shout to a colleague about an immediate danger. (Yes you could have communication built in but would they? And a sudden shout in the silence could be interesting.)
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Old 17-08-2017, 19:09   #2649
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Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !

Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 View Post
Why is the EU responsible for ear defenders not to be worn? The EU directive covers the noise thresholds deemed hazardous to health and the measures available to mitigate them.

Your phrase " EU health and safety rules dictate that ear defenders can be used only as a last resort in the workplace" is quoted from a Daily Mail article.

Taking your "facts" from the Daily Mail is a risky approach but this topic is a good example of how the anti-EU hysteria is propagated.
Your independent research has "silenced" the opposition. I wish more people on here didn't believe everything the Mail told them and thought for themselves.

Last edited by 1andrew1; 17-08-2017 at 20:03.
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Old 18-08-2017, 12:00   #2650
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Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !

<walks in> Remoaning continues <walks out>
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Old 18-08-2017, 12:10   #2651
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Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !

Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 View Post
Has he ever thought that those self same negotiators are more than likely the ones dealing with the Berexit negotiations?
Really??? Could they be??? Could they have a vested interested in undermining the UK's case and shafting us for as much as they can get???

What interests me is the mindset of any UK citizen who'd want that to happen. Why would anyone want the UK to get a bad deal and do their utmost to undermine everything that's being done to try to ensure we don't get one? It's bizarre mate. It's like they lost the argument and are so angry that they will only feel better if the end result is worse than in ought to be and then they can harp on about it. Pretty pathetic when you come to think of it....
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Old 18-08-2017, 13:29   #2652
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Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !

Quote:
Originally Posted by Osem View Post
Really??? Could they be??? Could they have a vested interested in undermining the UK's case and shafting us for as much as they can get???

What interests me is the mindset of any UK citizen who'd want that to happen. Why would anyone want the UK to get a bad deal and do their utmost to undermine everything that's being done to try to ensure we don't get one? It's bizarre mate. It's like they lost the argument and are so angry that they will only feel better if the end result is worse than in ought to be and then they can harp on about it. Pretty pathetic when you come to think of it....
I don't know anyone who wants the UK to get a bad deal but the haphazard approach that the Government has taken so far makes me wonder if Theresa May subconsciously wants to punish the country for voting out.
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Old 18-08-2017, 16:57   #2653
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Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 View Post
I don't know anyone who wants the UK to get a bad deal but the haphazard approach that the Government has taken so far makes me wonder if Theresa May subconsciously wants to punish the country for voting out.
No, let's get it right, the EU and their ilk want to punish the UK for voting out, remember the old drunken prick, Jean Claude Juncker's words 'This is not an amicable divorce!'
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Old 18-08-2017, 17:28   #2654
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Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick View Post
No, let's get it right, the EU and their ilk want to punish the UK for voting out, remember the old drunken prick, Jean Claude Juncker's words 'This is not an amicable divorce!'
Yup there's been plenty of that sort of thing emanating from those lovely Eurocrats, you know the ones the usual suspects here can't bear to criticise at all. It's perfectly clear that the EU wants to be seen to make the UK pay heavily for daring to leave their empire and what's equally clear is that there are those amongst us who'd happily help them do just that.

Most right minded people hope a sensible compromise can be found but if EU dogma prevents them from doing that then it's their fault not ours - we just need to move on and thank our lucky stars that we got out while we could.

---------- Post added at 16:28 ---------- Previous post was at 16:14 ----------

Quote:
... today’s new Institute of Economics Affairs report on trade policy has been well-received by ministers. It argues that no deal with the EU on trade would not be a disaster for the UK, recommending Britain commits to a policy of unilateral free trade with the rest of the world, eliminating all barriers to imports regardless of whether other countries impose tariffs on their imports from the UK. It would then be up to the EU if it wanted to impose tariffs, which would hurt EU consumers by raising prices. In such a scenario, the IEA report concludes the UK would likely be given tariff free access to the single market:
https://order-order.com/2017/08/18/i...al-free-trade/
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Old 18-08-2017, 19:30   #2655
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Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !

It's almost like in the run up to the referendum, the remain campaign said that the EU would not make things easy for the UK if it left. That's all project fear of course....

The IEA are a bunch of economic loons by the way. They are free trade fans who want to remove all trade tariffs. If the UK followed that advice, we can wave goodbye to the last of our manufacturing industry. When the government vetoed the anti dumping tariffs for Chinese steel, look what happened to our steel industry
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