Unstoppable migration?

[Osem]

Taff - by pure co-incidence I just saw an old episode of UK Border Force in which a failed Chinese asylum seeker (with a partner and young child) running a takeaway in Wales was found to be illegally employing her cousin and a nanny both of whom arrived in the UK illegally.

When being questioned, the nanny claimed she'd paid Chinese gang-masters £25k and couldn't go back because she still owed them the money and would be at risk. Shortly afterwards she started complaining of chest pains. She was arrested but could not be detained by the police due to her claimed medical condition so was allowed out of custody on bail for one week and disappeared. The cousin subsequently admitted lying about his age (under 16) when interviewed earlier and was ordered to report weekly whilst awaiting deportation.

The employers who were also acting illegally could not be detained due to having the young child and subsequently renewed their application to remain in the UK. They were facing the prospect of being fined up to £40k for employing illegal workers but it was doubtful they had the means to repay the fines in any event.

Does anyone reckon it's any different now?...

[Ramrod]

Black Belgians Refute ‘Poverty, Discrimination’ As Causes Of Arab Terror… It’s a ‘Cultural Value… We Hurt Nobody’

Black and African residents of Brussels have slammed left wing claims that local Muslims are drawn into terrorism because of “poverty” and “discrimination”, blaming cultural values instead.
So why is it that non-Muslim, but equally discriminated and disadvantaged, Africans are not seeking to kill and attack Westerners?

[roughbeast]

Originally Posted by Osem

Imminent or not, the fact remains that we can't stop EU migration and that includes any refugees who're given ultimately given asylum. I don't know about you but I don't take much comfort from delaying the inevitable and with the numbers arriving in Greece still huge, how long do you think it'll be before new fast track measures are put in place to disperse them? If we're still inside the EU and bound by the free movement rules we can't do anything about that.

That is total guesswork on your part based upon ill-founded hysteria. Even if refugees in other EU countries are, eventually, given permanent residency in other EU countries we are not part of the agreement to accept them here. Denmark and Ireland are also immune.

Belgium has an awful lot to learn about how to integrate immigrants. Their mistakes have been dire.

Other countries who have taken refugees and asylum seekers, whose current cultural frame of mind might be at odds with theirs, have made mistakes with distribution, housing them, education facilities, policing and enforcement and employing them.

These are people who have had to escape the horrors of total war, who rather be safe in their homeland and who have been pummeled with warped images of the west and have endured life under a Jihadist administration for many months. Coming to Europe has been a total culture shock. European countries should have anticipated this as they carried out their obligations of the Geneva Convention.

It is no use demonising these desperate and damaged people. We should be sheltering and nurturing them, whilst protecting ourselves. Not rocket science.


Unfortunately there are people in this discussion who have picked up on the disgraceful rhetoric of Farage, et al, who seems to have his speeches written for him by ISIS. ISIS rub their hands with glee at every sign of hate and misinformation directed at Muslim refugees. They love anything that destabilises European society or the EU. Why else do they bomb our cities and continue to drive refugees north? They have Farage and his ilk totally suckered, and at our expense.

We need to get a grip and work with other European countries, EU and non-EU. This is a global and continental problem that would exist without the EU.

[nomadking]

The UK had an opt-out from the "Working Time Directive" and that was bypassed by the EU to impose it anyway.

How is the behaviour of any asylum seekers that different from those born and bred here but have their origins in those countries? Sexual assault, rape, underage grooming, murder, terrorism etc are all present in BOTH sets. Most of them were perfectly safe in their countries, they just simply chose to come over. They are travelling long distances through these supposedly dangerous countries, eg Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq. They seem to be in the most danger once they've left those "dangerous" countries.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by roughbeast

That is total guesswork on your part based upon ill-founded hysteria. Even if refugees in other EU countries are, eventually, given permanent residency in other EU countries we are not part of the agreement to accept them here. Denmark and Ireland are also immune.

Belgium has an awful lot to learn about how to integrate immigrants. Their mistakes have been dire.

Other countries who have taken refugees and asylum seekers, whose current cultural frame of mind might be at odds with theirs, have made mistakes with distribution, housing them, education facilities, policing and enforcement and employing them.

These are people who have had to escape the horrors of total war, who rather be safe in their homeland and who have been pummeled with warped images of the west and have endured life under a Jihadist administration for many months. Coming to Europe has been a total culture shock. European countries should have anticipated this as they carried out their obligations of the Geneva Convention.

It is no use demonising these desperate and damaged people. We should be sheltering and nurturing them, whilst protecting ourselves. Not rocket science.


Unfortunately there are people in this discussion who have picked up on the disgraceful rhetoric of Farage, et al, who seems to have his speeches written for him by ISIS. ISIS rub their hands with glee at every sign of hate and misinformation directed at Muslim refugees. They love anything that destabilises European society or the EU. Why else do they bomb our cities and continue to drive refugees north? They have Farage and his ilk totally suckered, and at our expense.

We need to get a grip and work with other European countries, EU and non-EU. This is a global and continental problem that would exist without the EU.

Sorry it's certainly not hysteria to point out what's happening in the EU and what could so easily find its way here. As for demonising people, I have consistently stated here that we should be assisting genuine refugees closer to home. Sadly, the world is full of would be economic migrants and the more we allow to come here one way or another, the more will want to come and I couldn't care less what religion they are. That's not hysteria it's logic and it's happening right before our eyes in Greece now. To claim the UK will somehow remain 'immune' forever from the huge fallout of what's going on in Europe is naïve.

The rest of your post regarding ISIS and Farage is garbage and not worth commenting on.

[roughbeast]

Originally Posted by Osem

Sorry it's certainly not hysteria to point out what's happening in the EU and what could so easily find its way here. As for demonising people, I have consistently stated here that we should be assisting genuine refugees closer to home. Sadly, the world is full of would be economic migrants and the more we allow to come here one way or another, the more will want to come and I couldn't care less what religion they are. That's not hysteria it's logic and it's happening right before our eyes in Greece now. To claim the UK will somehow remain 'immune' forever from the huge fallout of what's going on in Europe is naïve.

The rest of your post regarding ISIS and Farage is garbage and not worth commenting on.

Yes, it is hysteria to point out a minority of failings and to appear to damn the whole process and a whole culture for it. You perhaps ought to chose your language more carefully so that you at least appear to have balanced sentiments. You perhaps ought to repeat your caveats about the majority of genuine refugees as you go. You can't expect folk to trawl through all your past texts.

Holding all the refugees in their first country of arrival is not sustainable because of the numbers involved. Many have to be taken by Europe and other continents. We have a combination of refugees escaping from war zones like Syria, Iraq and Afghanistan; those escaping rising sea levels in the Mekong and Ganges Deltas; those escaping the political consequences of increasing droughts of the sub-Sahara and those who we can call typical economic migrants. This is highly complex and will only get worse over the next generation as global warming progresses. The thousands of Pacific and Indian Ocean Islands are very vulnerable as are many coastal communities. Where are they to go? As with Syria this is a global, not an EU problem. Syria and Africa just happen to be next door. We should also be thinking of not reducing foreign aid, but increasing it and targeting climate change mitigation and self help, without handing cash to corrupt officials. The consequences of not investing foreign aid now, cost far more later.

We would like to think that the Syrian / Iraqi situation can be managed in the medium term, with the return of peace, but the whole developed world working with the developing world needs a strategy to deal with the bigger problem in terms if rehousing, keeping migrants economically active and promoting the integration of uprooted peoples.

Don't get me onto neocons like Farage and climate deniers, who seem intent on making things far worse by opposing all attempts to reduce greenhouse emissions.

[Osem]

Tear gas has been used to disperse hundreds of migrants trying to break through a fence at Greece's border with Macedonia.

The incident was near the Idomeni crossing, where more than 11,000 refugees and other migrants are camped out on the Greek side of the border.

There was some confusion over whether the Macedonian or Greek police were firing the tear gas, or both.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36009497

More than a million undocumented refugees and other migrants have entered the EU by boat from Turkey to Greece since early last year, generating an unprecedented crisis for the EU's 28 member-states.

[heero_yuy]

More EU madness:

BRITAIN’S security will be put at risk by letting Bosnia join the EU, it was claimed last night.

Experts said the former Yugoslav republic, which is home to three million Muslims, has become a breeding ground for terrorists.

Around 300 radicals have left to fight with jihadis in Syria and Iraq. The black flag of IS is also flown in some villages.

Yet Bosnia has applied for EU membership after being recognised as a candidate country.

If successful, its citizens would have greater freedom to enter the UK, sparking fears of an attack by extremists.

Linky

Just let them all pour in.

[Osem]

Don't fret, we're immune from all the EU's migration troubles remember...

[Taf]

So why is it that non-Muslim, but equally discriminated and disadvantaged, Africans are not seeking to kill and attack Westerners?

The non-muslim ones aren't, but the muslim ones are (boko haram and others).

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by Taf

The non-muslim ones aren't, but the muslim ones are (boko haram and others).

Snag is, that most of them coming over are the not the non-Muslim kind.

[Ramrod]

The former head of Britain’s Equalities and Human Rights Commission (EHRC), Trevor Phillips, has admitted he “got almost everything wrong” on Muslim immigration

Writing in the Times on the issue, Phillips admits: “Liberal opinion in Britain has, for more than two decades, maintained that most Muslims are just like everyone else… Britain desperately wants to think of its Muslims as versions of the Great British Bake Off winner Nadiya Hussain, or the cheeky-chappie athlete Mo Farah. But thanks to the most detailed and comprehensive survey of British Muslim opinion yet conducted, we now know that just isn’t how it is.”
And while he is cautious to note that many Muslims in Britain are grateful to be here, and do identify with role models such as Hussain and Farah, there is a widening gap in society with many Muslims segregating themselves.

“It’s not as though we couldn’t have seen this coming. But we’ve repeatedly failed to spot the warning signs,” he admits.
“For a long time, I too thought that Europe’s Muslims would become like previous waves of migrants, gradually abandoning their ancestral ways, wearing their religious and cultural baggage lightly, and gradually blending into Britain’s diverse identity landscape. I should have known better.”

And Mr. Phillips even acknowledges that the mass sexual grooming and rape scandals that are plaguing heavily Muslim populated towns across Britain are because of Muslim – not ‘Asian’ – men. He writes: “The contempt for white girls among some Muslim men has been highlighted by the recent scandals in Rotherham, Oxford, Rochdale and other towns. But this merely reflects a deeply ingrained sexism that runs through Britain’s Muslim communities”
Even left wing columnist Yasmin Alibhai-Brown told him: “[W]e [liberal Muslims] are a dying breed — in 10 years there will be very few of us left unless something really important is done.”

Phillips comments: “Some of my journalist friends imagine that, with time, the Muslims will grow out of it. They won’t.”

And indeed he lays the blame at the feet of the liberal, metropolitan elite, media classes: “Oddly, the biggest obstacles we now face in addressing the growth of this nation-within-a-nation are not created by British Muslims themselves. Many of our (distinctly un-diverse) elite political and media classes simply refuse to acknowledge the truth. Any undesirable behaviours are attributed to poverty and alienation. Backing for violent extremism must be the fault of the Americans. Oppression of women is a cultural trait that will fade with time, nothing to do with the true face of Islam.”

[Ramrod]

Imagine if someone like Trump had said those things

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Ramrod

Imagine if someone like Trump had said those things

Forget Trump - imagine if a Tory minister had done it.

Farage has been derided, intimidated and abused for saying stuff far less critical but then gross overreaction and faux outrage have always been weapons of choice amongst the loony left and PC obsessed. They accuse others of demonising people but don't mind a bit of that themselves.

I like the way he talks about 'missed signs' and so on - a great many people who could see the signs all too clearly and dared to raise concerns about all this were routinely shouted down and demonised by people like him. They didn't want to hear what didn't suit their agenda and now we're paying the price of all that misguided PC madness and liberalism.

[Ramrod]

I'm just happy that people like these two are finally speaking up.