[Update] Cyclist convicted of "wanton and furious driving"
 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-40927791


Will hopefully be found guilty of manslaughter

Re: What an obnoxious piece of work.....
 

Some bike owners will rush to defend him you can bet. Cyclist's never do anything wrong on the road just look at how they all obey the law and stop at red lights :rolleyes:

Re: What an obnoxious piece of work.....
 

He's certainly at fault by using an illegal bike with no front brakes but if she's a mobile phone Zombie then there's blame on both sides.

Re: What an obnoxious piece of work.....
 

Yeah but they're not a danger to anyone else... :rolleyes:

Re: What an obnoxious piece of work.....
 

Well the CCTV should answer that issue

Re: What an obnoxious piece of work.....
 

You can be assured of that.

Re: What an obnoxious piece of work.....
 

Sounds like pure chance she didn't kill him. Stands to reason if you're going to get in the way of a faster moving person who has right of way, you might come off worse. Just because he survived and she didn't, should give her actions and those of others a free pass.

If he been able to brake and in time, but was killed in the process(eg sent flying by applying the front brakes, it can happen), what are the chances that she would have been prosecuted?

Re: What an obnoxious piece of work.....
 

What stands to reason is that if you're going to cycle on public roads you do it on a legal bike equipped with functioning brakes. What she did/didn't do doesn't absolve him of responsibility for that and who knows what would have happened 'if'? If she's shown to have acted negligently and contributed to the accident then I'm sure that'll be taken into account by the court.

Re: What an obnoxious piece of work.....
 

Would having brakes have made any difference? At the moment it just seems to be a pronouncement by the prosecution. Even if he had had brakes, she could have just as easily crossed too near to him. He could have just as easily have been injured or even killed by having to brake. Their heads collided, so he could have been killed instead.

Not sure how there can be any doubt as to whether she was to blame. She crossed the road, 30ft from the crossing.

She IS being absolved of any responsibility by the comments AND by the court case.

Re: What an obnoxious piece of work.....
 

Used to be the case in this country that if someone died whilst you were doing something not legal you'd get done for their death. I know old street very well and wouldn't drive more than 20 either side of the roundabout

Re: What an obnoxious piece of work.....
 

So are you saying that this bloke wasn't in any way blameworthy given he was riding without breaks?

I certainly hope not. What kind of idiot would do that? He was putting his own life and everyone else's in danger.

Re: What an obnoxious piece of work.....
 

Some more info about this cretin

http://news.sky.com/story/crash-cycl...hears-10989512

Why would he change the wheels unless he knew they were illegal ?

Re: What an obnoxious piece of work.....
 

I assume by your comment you've ridden a fixed gear bicycle, more later on that.

By your argument a pedestrian who walks out in front of a vehicle and is killed is at fault. There's a law that covers that. It's called driving without due care and attention! In other words be aware of your surroundings and expect the unexpected and be able to stop if necessary.

To get back to the fixed gear bike I used to have one when I was 14yrs old so I know what can and can't be done with them. The front break isn't the only means of breaking and unless you are going downhill "hell for leather" you'd be surprised at the short distance you can stop. Putting your weight on the upward pedal causes a breaking force to be applied to the rear wheel so a front break isn't the sole means of breaking and would prevent "going over the top".

"Why don't velodrome riders use this method to stop after a race?"

1) They've expended that much energy in the race they just want to relax.

2) Vanity as they'd look like horses on a carousel.

Bottom line, he could have stopped, tried to cover it up by changing wheels, prosecute to the extent the law allows!

Re: What an obnoxious piece of work.....
 

Impossible to comment accurately without access to all the evidence other than this is a tragic occurrence. A bit soon to be hanging anyone just yet though :rolleyes: He may have changed the wheels because of damage during the accident and shouting after a traumatic crash isn't an unexpected human reaction.

Oh, and it's 'brake' not 'break' and 'braking' not 'breaking'. You ol' timers. Sigh ;)

Re: What an obnoxious piece of work.....
 

Typical that the argument ends up on how something is spelt :rolleyes:

Re: What an obnoxious piece of work.....
 

Typical? The 'argument' has yet to be resolved in Court. It is perhaps 'typical' that this forum delivers its own verdict on the face of scant information.
And, at our age, we should be able to spell.

Re: What an obnoxious piece of work.....
 

Blame it on the automatic spelling correctors!!

Re: What an obnoxious piece of work.....
 

He forgot the rule of pedestrians having right of way..Road or pavement. He should have been taking much more care just as any other vehicle should as well. There are too many unlicensed,uninsured motorised and pedal vehicles either on the roads or on the pavements. Even skateboarders and the new fad of scooters are a stupid danger because those using them seem to be blithely unaware of pedestrians on pavements.I'm getting fed up of having to walk in the road because of dratted mobility scooters side by side as well.

Re: What an obnoxious piece of work.....
 

It's a few decades since I last cycled and then it was mostly country roads with little traffic of any sort.

From a Cyclist website.
What happens if you have a collision with a pedestrian
In a cyclist-pedestrian incident who gets injured/killed is more a matter of chance than anything else. In this case, even with brakes he could just as easily have been killed, ie BOTH their heads collided, and yet there is no way she would have been prosecuted.

---------- Post added at 17:45 ---------- Previous post was at 17:35 ----------

If pedestrians had right of way, why is there a road sign near where I used to live saying "Cyclists give way to pedestrians". If there was an automatic right of way, why the need for the sign. You can be sure that if there was a right of way they would be constantly using it.

Re: What an obnoxious piece of work.....
 

As a reminder. However as most cyclists ignore foot high no cycling signs written on pavements and promenades as well as on signs around here I guess it's a waste of time and paint.

Re: What an obnoxious piece of work.....
 

Add to that list red lights, i see it every day in Manchester city centre. I never see a cyclist stopped at a red light they just carry on straight through. Bet they would complain bitterly if they get knocked over going through the junction when they are on red.

Re: What an obnoxious piece of work.....
 

It's at a junction where there is no left-turn for cars etc but there is a mini-cycle path for cyclists to turn left. Pedestrians are likely to cross in front of them as the crossing lights for the pedestrians will be green. The central point being that pedestrians do not have an automatic right-of-way on the roads.

Re: What an obnoxious piece of work.....
 

Wasn't there something about the most vulnerable always having least liability like when a car and a cycle have an accident the car is always held accountable

What happens when it's a cyclist vs a motorcyclist? Who has the higher victim-points status? I would guess the cyclist - but then motorcyclists are always in the right [sic] - so it could be a tough one!

Re: What an obnoxious piece of work.....
 

:shocked: I think you may be commenting without due care and attention there Maggy. I know if I'd said that there'd be at least half a dozen members at my throat.

Re: What an obnoxious piece of work.....
 

l am not at your throat me dear as l actually agree with the said sentiments by Maggy.:p:

Re: What an obnoxious piece of work.....
 

I'm a grey haired OAP and I get no respect from anyone. If I had a pound for every time I get to walk in the road because of cars parked on the pavement,cyclists on the pavement,young buggy pushing women walking two or three abreast as well as the local hells angel mobility scooter chapter out and about I'd have a very nice nest egg.:rolleyes:

Re: What an obnoxious piece of work.....
 

Agreed Maggy mobility scooters are a total pain and quite often where i live the people on them manage to jump off them and walk a lot better then me but since our town introduced a rental scheme a lot less genuinely needy people are using them. Seems a part of our societies progress has led to less polite behaviour in general if i had a quid for everytime i get weird looks off young women when i open or hold open a door I'd also have a tidy sum, not all progress is good.

Re: What an obnoxious piece of work.....
 

On a more positive note, your nest egg is your pension. A 'benefit' being most unfairly delayed for many women born in the late 1950/early 60's.

Re: What an obnoxious piece of work.....
 

Yes l know several women who had planned to retire at 60 and made their future retirement plans accordingly only to be suddenly told that they have got to work another 6 years.:(:td:

Re: What an obnoxious piece of work.....
 

She's dead mate. What responsibility would you like her to take? Crossing the road away from a crossing isn't of itself illegal and we're not going to hear her side of the story but if the court believes she acted dangerously they'll say so and it'll be reflected in the jury's decision. That doesn't alter the fact that she died. One fact we do know that his bike was ILLEGAL and illegal for a good reason - it didn't have the required brakes and if it had he would not be in as much trouble as he is and she might not be dead. That's life when you ignore the law and for very good reason.

Re: What an obnoxious piece of work.....
 

One which I worked hard for and I was one of those affected by the change from 60 to 65 retirement age. I had to wait until I was 63.However I knew right back when the announcement(1995) was made that I was going to have to wait so I made my plans ahead of time. Those women caught out obviously never paid any attention when it was announced.I certainly perked up my ears when I heard it.

Anyway I still get no respect from other pavement abusers.

Re: What an obnoxious piece of work.....
 

I suggest a swift handbag across the chops :D

Re: What an obnoxious piece of work.....
 

Violence never solves anything unless you have not been taught that lesson yet.;)

Re: What an obnoxious piece of work.....
 

I didn't suggest it as a solution; although there is a point of debate, it would be OT in this thread.

Re: What an obnoxious piece of work.....
 

Which side do you prefer? Left or right?:bsmack:

Re: What an obnoxious piece of work.....
 

What a wonderful idea. Every pedestrian carry a handbag and give every cyclist a swift one across the chops.

Splendid suggestion Kursk!

Re: What an obnoxious piece of work.....
 

A gentleman always dresses to the left Maggy but you really ask the most intimate questions you naughty girl.

A gold lamé clutch bag encrusted with shimmering sparkles would no doubt be your choice to complement your 1980's shell suit eh Pippa?

Re: What an obnoxious piece of work.....
 

Latest: Charlie Alliston has been cleared of manslaughter but been found guilty of 'Wanton and Furious Driving."

Re: What an obnoxious piece of work.....
 

Hope he has his soap on a rope :)

I am chuffed he will end up in jail.

http://news.sky.com/story/cyclist-cl...death-11001986

Re: What an obnoxious piece of work.....
 

You can be jailed for being involved in an accident on the highway for which both party seems to have some culpability, whilst stone-cold sober and whilst traveling well below the speed limit?

And all this under the auspices of an ancient law specifically relating to the control of a coach and horses. I wonder if the Queen's Coach has an effective front brake, and, she never wears a seat belt. There must be a law ;)

Re: What an obnoxious piece of work.....
 

Ahh, but the Queen is above the law, don't forget. ;)

Re: What an obnoxious piece of work.....
 

Well that's fair enough then :D. The blokes doing the driving ought to be prosecuted though.

Re: What an obnoxious piece of work.....
 

Not if she issues a Royal prerogative of mercy (or Royal Pardon).

Recent examples of them being issued:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_...ative_of_mercy

Re: What an obnoxious piece of work.....
 

I think he was lucky to avoid the manslaughter verdict. If a car driver had used a vehicle in a similar condition (i.e. designed for track racing and with no brakes fitted and driving at an excessive speed ) the driver would have faced a plethora of charges such causing death by dangerous driving possibly construction and use infringements.

Seems this part of legislation he was convicted under is used more often than you would think From the Report on the BBC News website" It is now used when it is not possible to prosecute under the Road Traffic Act 1988 - ie, when the vehicle in the crime was not mechanically propelled - and in cases of serious injury or death caused by a cyclist's actions.

It carries a maximum penalty of two years' imprisonment and/or an unlimited fine.
Previous successful prosecutions under the offence include those against cyclists Darryl Gittoes and Darren Hall, who both knocked down pedestrians who later died."

Who would have thought......

Re: What an obnoxious piece of work.....
 

I hope his prison term 'educates' this stupid idiot and those who'd seek to copy his behaviour. There's loads of young idiots around here who insist on riding recklessly on the roads and pavements on all sorts of bikes, many with no brakes. It's about time the police started confiscating their bikes.

Re: What an obnoxious piece of work.....
 

'Furious and wanton driving' ? What the heck is that?

Re: What an obnoxious piece of work.....
 

Maybe raiding as fast as he could whilst knowing that his bike was illegal and therefor putting other people at risk.

OR

https://www.lfgss.com/conversations/138170/

Re: What an obnoxious piece of work.....
 

An example of some very old law which definitely needs updating.

Re: What an obnoxious piece of work.....
 

In this case, coming out relatively unscathed and being male.

He could have just as easily, if not more so, have been the one killed in the incident, and no blame whatsoever would have been laid in her direction, even though she was to blame.

Re: What an obnoxious piece of work.....
 

Well go on start the ball rolling with your suggestions.

Re: What an obnoxious piece of work.....
 

How can she be blamed for that prat riding a bike with no brakes?

Re: What an obnoxious piece of work.....
 

Exactly, the law is an ass not allowing a manslaughter charge which his case should for a minimum of 15 years.

Re: What an obnoxious piece of work.....
 

I assume that includes anyone who has ever exceeded a speed limit. That'll be everyone then. Well, apart from the cyclist in this particular instance.

I feel very sad that this accident has resulted in the loss of a life but I'm not sure what purpose could be served by a custodial sentence on a young man, if that's what happens.

Re: What an obnoxious piece of work.....
 

I have exceeded the speed limit loads of times but guess what, my car has brakes.

He has shown no remorse whatsoever according to the judge and on that basis alone he should go to jail.

I cannot get my head around how anyone could defend that ignorant turd?

Re: What an obnoxious piece of work.....
 

The young man convicted is not a true representation of most cyclists.

He is a true representation of a moronic minority who think that they can gad around pretending to be cool and put their bolleaux on social media.

It's just a shame you can't ban the twonk from cycling.

Re: What an obnoxious piece of work.....
 

Nether can I.

Re: What an obnoxious piece of work.....
 

You admit to repeatedly breaking the law (as have we all) but 'having brakes' does not mitigate your (our) guilt :erm:. Speed limits are designed to keep people safe.

As for remorse, some people are not given to outward expression of emotion.

I'm not defending this cyclist btw; I don't have access to all the info/CCTV and obviously if a judge feels a custodial sentence is an appropriate penalty for an accident, then so be it.

Re: What an obnoxious piece of work.....
 

When i drive my car on the road i ensure it meets all the requirements set out in law.

It seems this cretin decided he did not have to meet this criteria. He rode a bike on the road that was deemed illegal on the road. He road a bike that did not have a front brake as required by the law. He decided he was above the law which was then proved false in a court of law

Re: What an obnoxious piece of work.....
 

And he's shown zero remorse for her death from what I can tell, normally I feel bad for people in his situation as they have to carry the guilt around for the rest of their lives but this arrogant chump doesn't seem to give a toss

Re: What an obnoxious piece of work.....
 

And when you drive your legal car do you ever exceed the speed limit because if you do you are deciding that you are above the law? A rhetorical question.

I am not defending the actions of the cyclist (we don't know all the info) but this was an accident with the worst possible outcome; one which everyone potentially confronts through speeding and most people do that routinely.

I think we need to be very careful about judging how people feel.

Re: What an obnoxious piece of work.....
 

But they tend not to do it knowing they don't have working brakes as required by the law.

Re: What an obnoxious piece of work.....
 

By speeding they are outside the law; legal brakes or not.

Re: What an obnoxious piece of work.....
 

Not sparing the horses. Originally a kind of reckless driving offence for carriage drivers. It still applies to people being reckless with a horse and cart but these days it is used more often to convict Lycra louts.

Re: What an obnoxious piece of work.....
 

it's as close to a hanging as we are getting

Re: What an obnoxious piece of work.....
 

With just enough rope left for you.;)

Re: What an obnoxious piece of work.....
 

I had a run in with one the other day in Manchester city centre. He was screaming at me because i almost hit him at a crossroads which i was passing through on green and he was going through on red. He was in the right according to him as he was on a bike and vehicles should watch out for bikes !!!!. I am still trying to work out his logic around red and green traffic lights. He even said he would report me and he had it all on video !!!!. I think a video of him jumping a red light would go down well with the coppers.

Thankfully we are about to get fixed cameras on the vans so at least we will have the evidence when we get this sort of attitude from some of the idiots who think they do not have to abide by traffic lights.

Re: What an obnoxious piece of work.....
 

What a horrible thing to say :(. Since when has riding a bike become a capital offence?

And whilst everyone recounts their personal anecdote of "why all cyclists are vermin" you might first remember that they are husbands, fathers, mothers, sons......

Re: What an obnoxious piece of work.....
 

indeed

Re: [Update] Cyclist convicted of "wanton and furious driving"
 

or there's lycrarat

Re: What an obnoxious piece of work.....
 

There are junctions that, because of their size, a cyclist can enter on green but exit on red. Most motorists see amber as 'go' when it means 'stop, get ready to go' but it's harder to catch the slower cyclists if you hang about...:rolleyes:

Re: What an obnoxious piece of work.....
 

i think you mean enter on red and exit on green;)

Re: What an obnoxious piece of work.....
 

I am more than happy to sit in the advance stop box, in front of all the traffic, waiting for the green light.

Re: What an obnoxious piece of work.....
 

It was not that big a junction plus he was going at a hell of a speed. i was on green not amber. He just rode straight out passing other bikers who were stopped at the red light. I accept not all bikers are cretins.

Re: What an obnoxious piece of work.....
 

Fair enough. I know there is a huge variation in cycling skills (as there is amongst car drivers, motorcyclists etc) and this can erode the respect that all road users must have for each other so that we can all get home for tea safely. Many less-skilled riders are learners and children.

When in my car, I will try always to protect them because I don't want to deprive a family of a mum or dad, son or daughter, and nor do I want to have the responsibility for someone's death.

When on my bike, I just want to stay alive.

Re: What an obnoxious piece of work.....
 

She can't be blamed for the prat's actions but she can be blamed for stepping out into the road without looking, which appears to be what happened.

Re: [Update] Cyclist convicted of "wanton and furious driving"
 

Another pedestrian killed by a cyclist

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/lond...-a3630906.html

Re: [Update] Cyclist convicted of "wanton and furious driving"
 

i saw a news article a couple of weeks ago about changing the laws on this kind of death by cyclist , i think the government are looking into it unfortunately it takes deaths to prompt change

Re: [Update] Cyclist convicted of "wanton and furious driving"
 

The PM was questioned about this on PMQ's - changing the law to make cyclists subject to the same legislation as motorists. Her answer was equivocal so I wouldn't hold your breath just but I do think it's the way forward. Cyclists are not only increasingly coming into potentially contact with drivers, they're doing the same with eachother - the Lycra lads and courier types v. the rest.

Re: [Update] Cyclist convicted of "wanton and furious driving"
 

Shall we post everytime a 'pedestrian' or cyclist is killed by a motorist? It would be a long thread...:rolleyes:

If you choose to attend, or indeed encounter, an event that you know includes 'furious' riding, such as a race (duh), you need to be aware of the risk, in the same way, say, as you take care when crossing the road.

We don't even know yet what the circumstances are here. Perhaps the pedestrian ignored barriers?; perhaps the health and safety experts are to blame?

If a person riding a bike shot someone in the street with an AK47, you'd post 'Another pedestrian killed by a cyclist' :rolleyes:

Re: [Update] Cyclist convicted of "wanton and furious driving"
 

How about we don't have races on the roads, it's not worth someone dying over. I'll ignore your attempts at deflection to.

Re: [Update] Cyclist convicted of "wanton and furious driving"
 

No i would post about a "pedestrian killed in a ride by shooting by a cyclist armed with a illegal AK47" :)

Re: [Update] Cyclist convicted of "wanton and furious driving"
 

It would mean stopping all those road marathon races and today's Great North Run because it would be dangerous with all the traffic on the roads; and the Monte Carlo Grand Prix. Bit of a grump aren't you? Stay in by the fire and warm your feet :sleep:

So knife-wielding 'pedestrians' can be called knife-wielding cyclists if they once owned a bike? :erm:

Re: [Update] Cyclist convicted of "wanton and furious driving"
 

Not at all he would only be classified as cyclist if he was on one when he did it. If he is on foot then any normal person would call him a pedestrian with a knife. BTW how did you make that leap to combine pedestrian and cyclist together when the 2 are totally different. i take it nothing other than being pedantic

If you are to argue on the side of the cyclist at least put some valid arguments together instead of trying to be smart as it diminishes your argument :)

Re: [Update] Cyclist convicted of "wanton and furious driving"
 

So if you murder someone you'll be referred to as an "A pedestrian ex-Services Cable Forum contributor who hates Tony Blair and cyclists in equal measure" or is some/none of that description relevant?

Just noticed your edit: I'm not trying to support anything. We don't have the facts yet.

Re: [Update] Cyclist convicted of "wanton and furious driving"
 

When someone gets trampled to death watching the great North run would be the time to ban it imo

---------- Post added at 20:24 ---------- Previous post was at 20:22 ----------

Far better to try and defect attention and hope the scrutiny being cast over it by government goes away

Re: [Update] Cyclist convicted of "wanton and furious driving"
 

About which case the cretin on his illegal bike in London or the other case

Re: [Update] Cyclist convicted of "wanton and furious driving"
 

Don't hold your breath for Government scrutiny, the PM simply said "I'm sure the Transport Minister will look into this" which in govspeak for nothing will happen.

The other case.

Re: [Update] Cyclist convicted of "wanton and furious driving"
 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-41263926

Another pedestrian fatality.

"Wanton and furious driving" by cement lorryists
 

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/817...ad-decapitated

Another pedestrian fatality due to cement lorryists.

Re: "Wanton and furious driving" by cement lorryists
 

That'd be relevant in a thread on 'cement lorryists'. Just as there are threads about cyclists killed on our roads, this is a thread about deaths caused by cyclists.

Re: "Wanton and furious driving" by cement lorryists
 

The juxtapostion of my post with yours is for balance; that makes it relevant.

Re: [Update] Cyclist convicted of "wanton and furious driving"
 

From the report

There were a lot of witnesses, who said that traffic was at a standstill by the pedestrian crossing.

"They said that the woman was walking between queued up vehicles when the lights changed.

"Two hours after the tragedy, the lorry driver was led from the scene in tears by two colleagues."

Note he was not yelling at the victim, which the lady mown down by the subject in this thread had to endure.

I think you are trying to compare apples with pears.

Re: "Wanton and furious driving" by cement lorryists
 

If the lorry was illegal and the driver culpable then it is a fair comparison. ;)

Re: [Update] Cyclist convicted of "wanton and furious driving"
 

The thread has moved on since the OP. You should read it :rolleyes: In a city of c. 9 million, accidents will occur.

Re: [Update] Cyclist convicted of "wanton and furious driving"
 

The idiot has been sentenced to 18 months in a youth offenders' institution. Maybe he'll equip his bike properly when he gets out.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-41306738

Re: [Update] Cyclist convicted of "wanton and furious driving"
 

Why a youth offenders institution? At 18 he should be classed as an adult, he is for anything else.

Re: [Update] Cyclist convicted of "wanton and furious driving"
 

Maybe he should have been banned from riding a bike?

So if you want to kill someone use a bike as the punishment is quite light. :rolleyes:

Re: [Update] Cyclist convicted of "wanton and furious driving"
 

So he can 'graduate' to this maybe?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england...shire-41306906

Re: [Update] Cyclist convicted of "wanton and furious driving"
 

Or a mobility scooter. These killers are more dangerous than lumbago and gout.