Unstoppable migration?
 

How many migrants do you think the Italian coastguard retrieved from the sea this weekend? 50? 100? 500? How about 5000, 30 of whom were dead?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-28082969

Can anything realistically be done about this or do we just have to accept that there's going to be an unstoppable and increasing flow of migrants who'll do virtually anything to get into Europe?

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

:shocked:

Wow,that is quite something.... I do think that this will only get worse and do believe that our (Im)Migration Policies,need a complete makeover. What don't get is why the West seemingly makes it easy for Third World Citizens to immigrate yet amongst our Natural Allies it's virtually impossible. I wouldn't mind Canadians,Australians,NZ,US Citizens,most of the EU,Japanese,etc. to be able to have Open Borders between each other...

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Shouldn't have 'retrieved' any.
The boat should've been sunk with everyone of them on board if they didn't turn around.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

The gangsters who are bring them over (scuttling the boat on arrival) need to be found and stopped.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Yes that'd be a good start - never seem to hear very much about that side of things. Perhaps if the punishments for trafficking were made much more severe these people would think twice about doing it. I dare say that for some, though, no form of punishment would stop them plying their trade and that there'll always be those who're desperate and/or naïve enough to fall victim to them.

I wonder what would happen if the Italian navy started taking them straight back to Libya and sinking the vessels involved? I don't imagine the Libyans would be too pleased. As it stands, there's every reason for these people to get on anything which floats in the certain knowledge that when they're spotted they'll be picked up and taken to their chosen destination.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

It's odd isn't it. If these people turned up at a land border the authorities would do all they can to stop them going any further no matter how desperate they were.

Get on a boat, however, and the authorities are effectively forced to act to help them and the more help is offered, the more people are tempted to come. It reminds me of those scenes we've all see where food aid is delivered to the starving only to result in chaos - a mass of desperate people fighting to get it, the strongest getting more than their fare share and the weak being trampled. Help needs to be delivered properly and if it isn't it can do more harm than good I believe. What's required is a new approach to this problem before we get to the point where we're actively encouraging huge numbers of people to leave their homelands and head west safe in the knowledge that they'll be taken in.

As it stands, we have no idea who these people are, where they really come from, what they believe, what they've been exposed to and what harm it's done them. There's no way of proving their claims to be anything other than opportunist economic migrants or people fleeing persecution, and insufficient resources to even try. Whilst huge efforts are now being made trying to prevent Muslim extremists, for example, returning from wars overseas, it's highly likely that we're going to find more and more migrants turning up in the UK, via places like Italy, with no idea where their loyalties lie and what risk they may pose.

I have no idea how it's going to be done but unless we do something to stop the river becoming a flood, we're going to have to accept the significant risks to our way of life it will represent.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

The Fifth Columnists are already here in Europe.

Weeding them out before they turn active is too big a job for our security services.

Stopping them at borders has become a farce due to "human rights" legislation and poor government.

We are going to get bit in the ass more than once before our leaders take enough notice to do something positive.

And then the lawyers will jump up claiming racism, religious intolerance, etc.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Surprised some of the EU countries have not asked their US master for some help in the way of using jet fighters or drones to blow the ships out of the water and claim terrorists are being transported in every boat load.

Many EU countries are don't have enough houses for normal population growth now, let along more immigrants and their future families too. So it makes sense to just say they are letting no more immigrants or asylum seekers in and stick to it. The boat loads of people will stop coming once they know they will be deported every time.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Very likely true. It's not just budding terrorists we have to worry about though is it. Many of these people will have been exposed to events which could have caused all sorts of psychological, behavioural and other issues, precluding them from adjusting to life and work in a totally different culture in which very different rules and standards apply.

We can continue to ignore this problem but my fear is that doing so will simply result in much harsher attitudes and, sooner or later, enforcement action. The question is will the authorities act decisively before it goes too far and large scale unrest results.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

What surprises me is that these people cross war torn countries and choppy seas but when the get here from my experience (whilst not being vast isn't exactly minimal either) seemingly loose the ability to wipe their own backsides, really starting to wind me up having to work with some of these guys and assist with seemingly every aspect of their lives tbh.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-28383622

And so it continues.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-29057709

Time to do something meaningful about this problem methinks. How long can we allow thousands of people to hang around our borders trying repeatedly to enter the UK illegally? IMHO most of these people aren't interested in safety or asylum, they're economic migrants interested in getting to the UK where they know the immigration system is full of holes and benefits/welfare system is far easier to access and abuse. They know that if they get in they will be allowed to disappear and even when they're caught, quite possibly years later, they'll be treated to appeal after appeal in order to prevent their removal. Furthermore they know that if they manage to make someone pregnant, the chances of their removal ever are remote in the extreme and the key to the welfare system have been handed over to them.

Continuing to bang on about secure borders and terrorist threats is meaningless rhetoric while we allow this to happen.
I have some sympathy for the French too, if our systems were as robust as theirs these people wouldn't be in France trying to get here.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

We have known for about 10 years that they travel through many countries including France to get here and we know it's to do with benefits yet in all those years, nothing has changed. They still travel through all these countries to get here. Why do the politicians insist on doing nothing?

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

One thing is for sure, that is if we don't clamp down on this hard they will continue to up the stakes and become ever more daring. I'd be tempted to make it clear to all these people that they will all be fingerprinted and permanently excluded from any possibility of long term asylum and citizenship irrespective of what some judges somewhere dictate counter to our wishes. They've broken the rules by not claiming asylum elsewhere and we cannot continue to allow that behaviour to be rewarded with life, welfare, benefits and ultimately citizenship of the UK.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

I doubt the problem is solely down to benefits.

I'd wager a large proportion of it is down to the English language and its international penetration, especially in the middle east and eastern Europe (Hungarian motorway electronic signs display English as a matter of course).

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

They are illegally in France, so why don't the French authorities do something?

Because they don't want the costs involved.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Definitely not down to benefits! Illegal immigrants of course get nothing, nada, as they don't exist. Asylum seekers get £42 per week. What do you get in France? £66 temporary waiting allowance while their claim is being processed and income support up to £140 per week (linky)

So, why do people come to the UK? For the majority, the decision wasn't theirs, third party agents and facilitators sent them this way. A third cited linguistic, family and historical links and the general perception that the UK is a safe place to live. For more information, check out section 6.2 of this study

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

They also believe that in France their claims are far more likely to be rejected and that once in the system in the UK there are myriad means by which they can stay here, work illegally etc. and get housed, especially if they make someone pregnant. They can access all sorts of services such as the NHS without any issues at all - not sure that's very easy in France. So why do people smugglers send the rest this way I wonder? They're not renowned for caring about their cargo and it'd be a whole lot cheaper to send them elsewhere...

Family and linguistic links soon become a self fulfilling prophecy. The more we continue to allow people from all around the globe to pitch up here because they feel like it, the more of them will come and the bigger our problems will be.

If I were a migrant in Calais the last thing I'd do is tell some BBC reporter that I can't wait to get into the UK because the welfare and immigration systems are so lax and the chances of ever being removed are small.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

"A total of 43 asylum seekers and refugees were interviewed for this research."

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Sorry guys, I only pop in every now and then :-)

According to a Home Office study, most asylum seekers are not aware that there are benefits so I would be interested to know where you have evidence that says otherwise and a comparison on the ease of getting benefits compared with France would be good too. Here's a link to the study. 63 interviews held if that holds any sway. The report does date back to 2002 so the balance of nationalities has changed but not massively so.

On the links between britain and the countries that asylum seekers come from, here is a list from January to March 2014 from the Home Office of where asylum seekers are coming from;

Pakistan (3,343), Iran (2,417), Sri Lanka (1,808), Syria (1,669), Eritrea (1,377), Albania (1,326), Bangladesh (1,123), Afghanistan (1,040), India (965), Nigeria (915)

I count 5 out of the 10 as being countries we used to own, being granted independence from Britain between 1947 and 1960.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

It's perfectly evident that this matter is complex and migrants are driven by many factors but one thing which is obvious is that they wouldn't choose to live in squalor in Calais for months or years just to risk their lives under a lorry trying to get into a country in which they believe life will be worse.

The extent to which what they've been told/choose to believe about their prospects in the UK and what is true differs will vary from case to case but, whatever their reasons and motivations, the more we allow to come here and remain, the more will want to come and the more desperate they will be. Something will have to give at some point - it's just a question of when, not if.

Until we do something about the reasons these people are coming half way around the globe to get here they will continue to come and in increasing numbers. The empirical evidence is that, for these migrants, life in France (and elsewhere in safe European countries they've passed through) clearly isn't deemed attractive enough. Why would that be? IMHO it's a combination of factors chief amongst which must be the overriding belief that they'll do better here and be less likely to ever be removed.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

The reason they come here is simply because of Britains world wide reputation of being soft and it's easy money. that's all. Britain doesn't need a debate. doesn't need a special team set up to try and work out just why it is that these people want to come here. we know the answer. just too unwilling to admit it.

Not one single person from outside the UK can say something like "Britain is tough" or "Britain is strict"
but there's plenty that will say "Britain won't want to offend you"

to prove how soft Britain is. look at the police. and how we ignore them and tell them to jog on.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

This is a very valid point.

You can't spend centuries democratizing countries telling them how your democracy, citizenry and society (amongst other things) are the best in the world and then somehow be surprised / offended when they want to come and live with you.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

I never understood that at school when we were told that we used to own countries on the other side of the world.
I always imagined that it just happened one day like an auction where countries would say I'll have this one and that one. till they were all taken.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Many of those "countries" weren't really countries, just various tribes in scattered villages. What boundaries that existed were merely the limits of one tribes influence. We just walked in, set the borders and organised things.

It was setting those borders without regard to the ethnicity or religeons of the various tribes that were ruled by us and the other colonial powers of the time that seem to be at the root of many of todays conflicts.

---------- Post added at 10:55 ---------- Previous post was at 10:54 ----------

There is however a world of difference between them wanting to come here and the authorities putting out the welcome mat and pots of money.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Thanks. if Mrs Reed had have explained it like that. I would have understood.
she never let me ask questions at the time.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

I always found it odd growing up looking at maps of the world and seeing most of Europe and Asia divided up along "wiggly" lines (rivers/mountains/other geographical dividers), while Africa was divided up with arrow straight ones...

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

What could also be very worrying is that ISIS could infiltrate these immigrants (scenario: explosives on a ferry or in channel tunnel !!!). The mayor of Calais has said she wants to blockade the port... surely that is illegal, if that does happen could we move the lorry freight and cars to Boulogne or Zeebrugge.

How on earth do they get to Calais without being detected.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Because the rest of the EU countries wave them through when they say they want to go to the UK.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Because of the Schengen Area agreement (no border controls in the majority of EU countries).

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Exactly. Getting from the toe of Italy to Calais is legally no more difficult than Land's End to John O'Groats.

This idea does of course depend on rigorous "outer border" security

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

This is a great discussion! It has prompted me to do some more reading. This UNHCR report is interesting - the UK is the 5th largest recipient of asylum seekers after USA, Germany, France and Sweden. We don't even feature in the top 10 per capita recipients of asylum seekers! It seems like we take less than 10% of the total European asylum seekers.

I knew suspected the press and certain political parties were 'bigging' up the figures but I didn't realise by how much

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Remember that:

Immigrants

Illegal Immigrants

and Asylum Seekers don't mean the same thing.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

I would divide that further.

EU immigrants

non-EU immigrants

illegal immigrants

Asylum seekers

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Here are some recent immigration statistics for EU countries... http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/sta...12_YB14_II.png

With an overview - http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/sta...ion_statistics

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

So far as I am concerned anyone who comes here with a made up story of being persecuted or whatever and claims asylum (when in fact they're just economic migrants looking for a better life) is an illegal immigrant. The fact that the 'system' often isn't sufficiently robust to easily detect them, prove their illegality and remove them doesn't alter that.

Anyone who's watched any of the many documentaries shown on immigration will know that whilst many asylum seekers genuinely need and deserve our help, a good proportion are simply cynically abusing the system knowing that by so doing they can stay here one way or the other virtually indefinitely. That's one reason so many of them either hide or destroy their ID - without it it's extremely difficult to remove them back to their country of origin.

Not all asylum seekers are genuine and if they're not, they're by definition illegal.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

But what is a 'good proportion'? Does anyone know for sure how many people are abusing the system?

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

The growing flow of migrants in small boats during the summer months is one thing but this is on quite another scale.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-30639794

It's all too easy for the traffickers isn't it? At what point can/do the authorities decide enough's enough? Until that happens the numbers will surely and understandably continue to grow.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

And you can bet they will heading straight for the UK for all those free benefits.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Abusing what system? IIRC the general rule is that anyone claiming asylum should do so in the first safe country they arrive in and the UK doesn't usually remove anyone who hasn't done so back to that country so if they get here they are dealt with here. Whilst I can fully appreciate why they don't do so, anyone who doesn't do that is technically abusing the system IMHO. The numbers of migrants who manage to gain entry into the UK illegally by one means or another (whether on lorries from Calais or by means of false ID) is by definition unknown. What isn't unknown is that there are vast numbers of people around the globe who wish to migrate into Europe and take their chances here. The growing numbers being picked up off the coast of Italy and Greece testify to that.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

And here's another.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-30653742

Seems like the back door to Europe is well and truly open. It's ironic that whilst we're being extraordinarily careful about admitting some people into Europe, just about anyone can get on a boat and be towed here.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

And another load on there way here you can bet, they will do it via open borders all the way to Dover. You have just got to love the EU's open border policy :mad:

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

You two are truly amazing human beings.

Not a thought about the human cost to these people, the enormous risks they have took just to get to these boats without knowing if they'll even get off alive, what they are escaping from and what they may have suffered prior.

No, just selfish rants about how people are economic migrants who must be abusing the system and do not deserve anything other than to be sent home.

Most of these people came from Syria, a country where nearly 75 thousand people died last year. Trying to de-humanise them or score political points wont make a damned difference. You want the flow of migrants to stop? Closing our borders and shouting la-la-la wont help.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Closing our borders would work, but there is no political will to do so at the moment.

The EU is bound to demand that we take our "fair share" of these migrants, despite the rules of asylum.

And meanwhile the traffickers will continue to do as they always have with not a thought to the welfare of their passengers.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

I'm pretty sure it will help, unless you know some secret way they could all still use to get in.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

There would be any number of problems from just closing the borders. Many global companies require the ability for workers to migrate, even if it's just for short contracts, or to recruit uniquely skilled workers for certain jobs. Just as an example we'll be building some nuclear power plants soon and I imagine we don't have all the requisite talents within the UK or newly expanded foreign companies trying to set up here who need to send some of their staff. These will all need work permits at the very least. Then you have issues with people that have foreign partners and what would happen to our own expats should we decide that no more foreigners are allowed in here. We would end up being an isolated island unwilling to recruit, marry or learn from the majority of people in the world who aren't British.

Closing the borders probably would help but in the same way amputating a leg would get rid of your athlete's foot.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

You really need to read what I've written on this subject many times before making such a ridiculous statement. I've NEVER stated that all migrants are abusing the system or that all asylum seekers are bogus. Neither have I suggested closing our borders so there's another flaw in your rhetoric. I'm simply pointing out an unpleasant reality and that is that the world is full of deserving and desperate people and until we can do something about that fact this problem will not only never cease, it will grow and more people will take their chances at the hands of traffickers who a) have no thought for their welfare and b) are hardly likely to be telling their paying customers the truth about the risks they are taking. We're doing precious little to stop the causes of the flow of migrants, in fact in some cases we're contributing to the reasons for it. This thread posed a question and you appear to be as long on personal attacks as you are short on ideas for dealing with the problem.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Examples of these highly skilled people that are being brought in.
Link

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Closing no, controlling YES. At the moment we have no control over our borders and i think its about time we got that back. Simples

---------- Post added at 14:22 ---------- Previous post was at 14:20 ----------

So when did i say CLOSE the borders. Oh wait i didn't YOU did.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Errr....

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/35494650-post2.html

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

For clarity over the above quote which would have been better to post in full instead of just a link.

I said close the doors not the borders, We should not close the borders they need to be open so that if we can have controlled immigration. However the EU have seen fit to remove that ability from us.

There i am happy to clarify the point for you. :rolleyes:

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Sorry,

You're quite right, my mistake.

It was here:

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/35600377-post34.html

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

I think that's quite correct ,unfortunately it puts us in somewhat of a quandry because many of the same people shouting for our borders to be shut also shout very loudly for us to stop or at least severely cut overseas aid and leave those countries to sort themselves out

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Silly question but why are they towing them to Italy, why not tow them back to Sierra Leone

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

I have made myself clear in my last post, if you want to keep digging at it that's fine you go ahead and have your satisfaction see if i care.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Because Sierra Leone is about 4000 Nautical Miles away, and on the other side of Africa?

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

They can get a bus or train to France far easier from Italy :)

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Yes but I don't think they hired the tow. I think Hugh is probably closer to the mark.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

:shrug:

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Its not beyond the realms of possibility that the traffickers knew that if they could get the ship close to Italy it would be towed there when discovered. The traffickers are however only worried about the money they made when they were paid by those on the ship.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Certainly. No one would disagree with that.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Just trying to help.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

I remember an episode of Rough Guide(a long while back), where the Italians where shown putting Albanian illegal immigrants on trains to France.

---------- Post added at 09:16 ---------- Previous post was at 09:11 ----------

But it left Turkey which is a lot nearer.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Then it should be towed back to Turkey, not Sierra Leone....

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-30660777

It's an impossible situation. By not intercepting more boats they're effectively letting people die but by 'encouraging' trafficking people are dying and being cynically abused. On top of all of that at, countless thousands of people (those who have no means to escape their problems) are being left to die and suffer in their home countries around the globe every day of every year. The unpalatable reality is that we can't help/save them all so maybe saving a tiny proportion in this manner allows us to feel a bit better about a problem we don't spend much of our time doing anything about. Let's be honest, there's no big appetite here or anywhere else for spending more on humanitarian aid so where does that leave us?

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

There ARE able to escape their problems. The place they are in before they leave for Europe is a safe one, and therefore at that point they have escaped their problems.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

So there are jobs for the two million refugees in Turkey?

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

statements like this show the level of misunderstanding of the problem

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

And there are 2m jobs here or in Italy or anywhere else?

---------- Post added at 12:50 ---------- Previous post was at 12:47 ----------

Their problem is meant to be that they are under attack. Are they under attack in France, Italy, Turkey, etc? When they get on a plane at an airport, is the airport being attacked? An airport is heaving with government officials, so it would be difficult to use, if it was the government you were scared of.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Basically what you want is for refugees to remain in the country they first arrive in which is a riddiculous idea ,all that happens then is only one or two countries end up bearing the burden ,countries like Greece,Italy and Turkey.The refugees towed to Italy where from Syria so where do you propose they go to ? Israel ? Egypt? perhaps Iraq ?

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

How about Jordan, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Lebanon, Iraq, Iran etc.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

well they could leave a country embroiled in civil war and move to a country where conditions aren't much better and the sudden arrival of 2 million refugees could destabalise the countries you mentioned leading to further problems .The reason those Syrian refugees are trying to get to countries like Italy and Greece and ultimately further north into Europe is because Turkey cannot take anymore and are starting to turn back refugees at the border ,even firing upon them to stop them entering the country ,the other countries (perhaps with the exception of Saudi Arabia) all have their own internal problems that would be greatly exacerbated by the sudden arrival of 1000's of reefugees.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

The sudden arrival of 1000's of refugees would have a similar effect here too.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

And of course once they're here they won't be going back once the situation is resolved as seen with the kosovans that are still here despite assurances that they'd be gone once hostilities ceased.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Indeed but because we have no control over our boarders we cannot stop them from entering even if we tried.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-30669136

With profits like that to be made and zero risk of being caught and punished, I think we can expect more of the same since the traffickers aren't interested in the welfare, status or intentions of those they're transporting. Anyone who pays the price can be a refugee and seek asylum whilst the most needy are left behind.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

It's always been the case, those in the most danger are generally the poorest with no means of escaping, those that escape are the ones with the necessary wealth to enable them to do so.

Accepting them as refugees and giving them asylum gives the liberal type a feeling that they have done some good for those poor persecuted people, whilst chosing not to think of the ones that are in real danger;)

I think all this asylum from countries with problems and free movement in europe from poor to better off countries for financial reasons has to stop. If it remains uncontrolled we will end up with the better off countries overcrowded and dragged down coping with the financial strain. On the other hand the countries that these people are fleeing from will have less demand on resources and in time may become the richer countries. I wonder if the cycle will turn if we look far enough into the future.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Czechs who came here told me that they can't go back because their old homes and jobs are now full of Romanians and Bulgarians. Plus EU tax rules have meant a large increase in the cost of living whilst wages have stagnated for years.

So it looks like the population of Europe is slowly drifting westwards, leaving a vacuum in the east. Who will move in there I wonder?

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Maybe the Blairs will want to extend their property portfolio. It'd be fitting for them to be able to benefit from the situation Teflon Tone helped to bring about.

---------- Post added at 16:30 ---------- Previous post was at 16:27 ----------

:tu:

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

So where will they all head for now?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-30657003

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

the ruskies!

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-32314263

More deaths at the hands of traffickers.

I'm still waiting for some clear answers from our glorious leaders as to what we do about all this. Do we carry on picking up bodies and boat loads of refugees or do we try to prevent them from coming? Do we restrict our humanitarian efforts to those refugees/migrants who've managed to travel to places like Libya or do we intervene elsewhere? That's clearly not been the choice made by the west in Syria, Libya etc. has it - no will to get in there and sort things out.

There are millions of people suffering poverty, oppression and worse around the globe, what do we do to help them or does it just make us feel a bit better dragging boatloads of migrants ashore and leaving the rest to their fate whether that be drowning in the Med. or being slaughtered in Syria?

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

By all means rescue them but take them back to their embarkation point and ensure the boat is scuttled so it cannot be used again. Bringing then to Italy just intensifies the pull factor.

Europe simply cannot absorb the fleeing millions from the middle East conflicts without domestic strife.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Whilst people believe or even delude themselves that a better life in the west can be had via people traffickers the flow will not stop. Genuine desperation and fear must play a big part, however, so for those who are genuinely fleeing war zones etc., we should do what we can to provide humanitarian relief as close to their homes as possible, then help them to rebuild their lives as we had to do in Europe after WWII. It's very easy to overlook the fact that there are countless millions of people suffering around the world and suggesting that we can somehow assimilate them all is naïve. Social unrest is already spreading in places where there have been large influxes of refugees/migrants and it will only get worse as the numbers grow and pressure builds on services etc. That's the rather unpleasant reality of the situation we're in and toppling the dictators who kept a lid on so much of this has proved a huge mistake.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

And not just those fleeing, there are doubtless some amongst them who do not wish us well in Europe.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

That is very true. It may well be a very small proportion who're a risk but we have no idea who most of these people are, what their backgrounds are and what dangers they may pose.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Anyone who doubts the scale of this problem ought to consider that the Italian authorities have rescued 10,000 refugees in the last week alone. The numbers are increasing rapidly it seems.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/0...192547203.html

Meanwhile in the UK:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-32324110

Maybe I'm missing something buit if people have come here with no proper ID documentation then how the hell do we know who they are let along whether their claims are true? Doesn't this rather make a mockery of our supposedly 'secure' borders? :confused:

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

If you have the right travel documents you likely don't need the traffickers and likely are not fleeing for simple financial reasons. In too many of the source countries you need to be able to pay bribes as well as fees to get the documents in the first place. If you can afford that you probably can afford flights/transport and more likely will be skilled or wealthy so more welcome in the host nation.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

My partner was able to flee a country at a young age where she was in danger from an oppressive government. When it comes to sympathy for asylum seekers she's not the most sympathetic to put it mildly. She came from a family with enough wealth to enable her to leave the country, and she is aware that those who were in more danger than her were not in a position to leave.

I think those that make a well intentioned fuss about helping asylum seekers often ignore the reality that the real victims remain and suffer.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

That's an inconvenient truth.

Well it wasn't going to be too long before this happened:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-32337725

Are we going to give asylum to people like this? :shrug:
How many of these refugees harbour such extreme hatred whether Muslim, Christian or anything else?
Where they do it's going to be the same where these people are dispersed to isn't it? Longstanding hatred and rivalries imported into Europe from around the globe in the name of asylum. Somebody needs to get a grip on what's happening.

Where migrants have the financial means to leave their countries because they want a better way of life in Europe, should we have an obligation to offer them asylum?

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

If they arrived at a land border they would be almost certainly stopped. But when they arrive in boats they are "rescued". Rescue them back to where they came from.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

The trouble I see is that, as happened in Calais when a ferry was stormed, you get to the point where these people will become aggressive in order to get what they want. They feel they have nothing to lose and are therefore very likely to call any bluff levelled at them by the authorities they know are bound by certain 'humanitarian' rules. Many of them are not interested in following rules, they just want to get into Europe and then make their way to where they want to go. This is why we have thousands of people queuing up in Calais trying to get into the UK when they've already passed through any number of safe countries in which they could and should have claimed asylum.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Yet more deaths.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-32371348

Parts of Europe are effectively under siege and whilst it's totally understandable wanting to prevent these tragedies, unless something's done in the countries (e.g.Libya) from which these people are emanating, more misery will result and attitudes will continue to harden.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

i read the other day that the followers of Islam threw the the followers of Christ overboard on one of these voyages .

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Ironically, it's being stated that the boat capsized when the refugees massed towards one side of it in order to attract the attention of another vessel. Such is the desperation of these people that I can see this sort of thing happening again whether it be boats capsizing due to the migrants themselves or migrants swamping smaller rescue vessels.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

At least it's one more vessel the traffickers can't use.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Do you have a link for this?

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Wow, that's going to do anything to stop the rise of Islamophobia .. they are their own worst enemies.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

That is perhaps why they don't stop killing each other.